GPLindsey

I just finished an excellent book called "The Founding Fathers and the Place of Religion in America," by Frank Lambert of Purdue University. It is a wonderful summary contrasting America's colonial phase when religious establishment was the rule in the colonies, to the Founding Father's separating Church and State. One delightful line, "...Jefferson and many of the other prominent Founding Fathers were what some would today call secular humanists" (p.249). Here! Here! Seconded! Another jewel is a statement Jefferson paraphrased in the 1800 campaign: "Let every man speak freely without fear, maintain the principles that he believes, worship according to his own faith, either one God, three Gods, NO GOD [emphasis added], or twenty Gods: and let government protect him in so doing" (p.286).

Contrast this to what George Bush the First said when he was once confronted with a question on his thoughts on atheists. I don't have the specific quote, but it was along the lines that he didn't regard them as patriots or even real citizens, and that this was "One Nation Under God." If anything, his son George Bush II (or as I like to call him, "Number 2", as I make a grimace) would be considerably more hateful in his comments, if he were ever asked directly.

What has happened to this country? Someone like Jefferson could not be elected today because his opinions on religion would be considered too humanistic and unorthodox. The nonreligious today cannot "speak freely without fear," and our political leaders are uninterested in acknowledging that atheists could still be upstanding citizens and patriots. I would love to cite Jefferson's quote and that from his father to the President, and ask Number 2 whose views does he agree with--Jefferson's or Bush I?

edited by Toto to add URL to Amazon

Kevin Dorner

Quite the opposite: he isn't on record as saying anything negative about unbelievers and has in fact said positive things, though this certainly does not discount any of his actions in the undermining of C/S separation in the U.S. I don't know what he says in private, but in public:

"We all know that men and women can be good without faith. And we also know that faith is an incredibly important source of goodness in our country."
---White House press release, "Remarks by the President Via Satellite to the Southern Baptist Convention 2002 Annual Meeting" (June 11, 2002)

"We know that men and women can be good without faith. We know that."
---Speech to the National Hispanic Prayer Breakfast (May 16, 2002)

"Americans practice different faiths in churches, synagogues, mosques and temples. And many good people practice no faith at all."
---Easter address, 2002

Source: Positive Atheism's Quotations

GPLindsey

I think what's in Bush II's heart and what he says in a prepared speech are likely two different things. Just one example: Several times over the last few months, Bush has sought to give some comforting thoughts to those who've lost loved ones in the Gulf War, or to victims of terror. No complaint with that. However, invariably, he says that "The prayers of all Americans" are with the grieving families. This is a subtle thing, but many other politicians in similar situations say things like the "thoughts and prayers" or the "sympathies and prayers", to just give a nod to the nonreligious Americans out there who also grieve for the families who have lost loved ones, but don't practice prayer. Bush doesn't--unless he's a simpleton and doesn't know that some Americans don't pray, I think he's communicating his view that all Americans pray, and those that don't aren't real Americans.

I also doubt that, if Bush were really confronted with choosing between his Father's statement and that of Jefferson, he would choose Jefferson.

himynameisPwn

I really don't think Bush is smart enough to be that deceitful. In order to be that deliberate with words requires a great deal of inteligence. Plus, I don't think theists give two seconds of thought to the fact that some people don't pray. Hell, even when I was a theist, I didn't pray and I thought someone sending out their prayers was pretty much on par with well-wishing.