tdekeyser

If we can convert all the world to non-theist societies, what would it be like?

· No more suicide bombings.
· No more terrorism using religion.
· Science will be able to grow through a 80% increase from new interest.
· Self-esteem will increase in everyone increasing happiness and world productivity.

[ May 27, 2002: Message edited by: tdekeyser ]</p>

Kvalhion

Religion is just a program for people to cope with reality. Discounting religion would not necessary solve the problems of the world. We would still live in a culture that is overpopulated and suffers from unequal distribution of wealth and resources. Many of the problems would still exist.

That said, I tend to agree that there would at least be a chance for people to examine what they believe and why they believe it. One of the most destructive attitudes of religion is that the entire universe exists just so humans can do whatever they please with it. This perspective is what is leading to eventual catastrophe. As long as a majority of people believe everything exists just for humanity, very little will be resolved.

Negating the negative effects of religion would be a huge step forward, to say the least. Even so, do you really think a majority of the world population are ready to cope with the reality of life without the dangling carrot of religion?

Abacus

It appears to me that much of the world isn't coping well with reality even with the dangling carrot of religion.

ManM

Getting rid of religion would solve nothing. People would just find a new system to abuse.

Perchance

I think morality is actually close to being "a self-thing" already (if by that you mean derived from personal observations and thoughts, and not religious books). At least, very few people that I know of actually spend a lot of time quoting the Bible when explaining their decision-making processes.

Of course, on the other hand, I don't ask them quite a lot of the time. I wonder what would happen if I did...


Also, do you think a lot of self-esteem problems come from religion? (Just curious- as one who's been told that she has "self-esteem problems" but also has little to no religious training, I don't think religion is a factor for me).

That said, here are a few more things that might mean being part of a non-theist world:

-No more door-to-door preaching.
-Less car pollution because people will sleep in on Sunday mornings.
-People better able to deal with death, rather than spending their lives anxiously awaiting heaven.

-Perchance.

tdekeyser

I disagree 100%. I think abolishing religion will bring humans 50% closer to world peace. We still will have to deal with prejudice and racism.

Gurdur

Precisely, though one can also add many organized religions actively implicitly promote abuse in some ways.

But also let's not do the old immature cliché of condemning the rest of the hoi polloi and imagining that we are somehow amazingly more intelligent than the common herd, or that somehow the great unwashed are always condemned to be silly and self-defeating.

(no, ManM, this is not directed at you)

tdekeyser

- Andrea Yates children might still be alive
- Danny Pearl might still be alive
- There would have been better laws sooner
- Our economy would be recovered by now

Someone7

Secular issues would just become that much more important to people. If we weren't killing each other because of religion, we'd be killing each other over politics (of course, that is a blurry line anyway...) that much more often.

I can imagine it now, a huge Left-wing Right-wing war. Objectivists killing Marxists, Marxists killing Randians, Libertarians plotting to kill Noam Chomsky, socialists and anarchists bombing corporate buildings, etc, etc, etc.

Seeker196

A society with more personal freedom.

Less violence. Atheists know this is your only shot, so I think there would be less violence.

Greater interest in science. In most religious worldviews, science is a definite side-issue, the 'real' issue is the cosmic battle between good and evil for human souls. The 'real' issue is our Eternal Existence.

I think I have to agree a bit with Marx that 'religion is the opium of the people'. Ever notice how strong religious orthodoxy and crushing poverty seem to go hand in hand?

The connection is obvious. If you are living in a society where it is nigh impossible for you to advance yourself, or even achieve security, then the appeal of thinking:

"I don't have to worry as much about social justice, liberty, and being screwed by the powerful, because in the end, as foretold by the Sacred Toho, Godzilla will come and judge the Quick and the Dead and I'll live happily ever after just like in all those Hollywood movies the wealthy elite keeps feeding me." becomes obvious.