Deke

Suppose I develop a tolerance for bee stings – I don’t feel any pain, I don’t get any swelling, etc. Suppose I have a friend who has a troubled heart, and I say to my friend, “Friend, I know you have a troubled heart. To ease your troubled heart, I am going to show you how much I care for you by enduring a hundred bee stings!” And so, my friend and I go to a bee hive (he stands back) and I rattle it around. As I’m doing so, I pretend to be a little anxious to create the illusion that this is gonna hurt. The bees do their thing: they come out and start stinging me. I wince and let out some painful howls as I’m getting nailed. My friend cannot believe it…”Stop! Ok, Ok, I get it, you care immeasurably for me…my heart is uplifted and troubled not.”

“Great!” I proclaim as I brush the bees off and walk away. “Wow, you sure to care for me Deke!” “And how, friend…man that hurt!”

Now, I knew all along that the bee stings wouldn’t hurt – I knew that my actions would not lead to any lasting personal harm. So, have I really sacrificed anything? Did I give up anything?

Jesus, being God and all, surely knew how all his actions would turn out. Surely he knew that not long after the few hours of physical pain on the cross, he’d be without pain, and back in the swing of things…forever even.

So, it’s not entirely clear what He actually gave up. What did He actually sacrifice? His earthly body? A few hours of physical pain?

God gave His only begotten son….

He did? Didn’t He actually get His son back? Can’t He beget another son? Actually, isn’t His son supposed to return to us anyway?

Deke

Peter Kirby

The place for theological discussions that are not based on history or exegesis is, I believe, General Religious Discussions.

best,
Peter Kirby

Deke

I put it in the Biblical Discussion forum since it centers on Jesus' suffering. Which in my opinion, is a Biblical topic. But hey, you're the mod.

Peace,

Deke

cydonia

That's a good comparison, but you're making a big mistake when it comes to thinking about Jesus' sacrafice: you're thinking!

For what it's worth I can't get my head around this concept either. I think the meaning of "sacrafice" isn't so clear perhaps.

spacedOut

Well, you forget that he had to bare the sins of the world, and that was really bad because God had to turn his back on him at that exact moment, but since Jesus is God then I guess he turned his back on himself, but he was still there with the sins and all, and he suffered a horrible death and went to hell and stuff, but maybe he didn't go to hell because he told the good thief that they would be in paradise that day, but he was back a couple of days later eating stuff with the disciples, but I don't think God was invited to that party, and then in a little while he flew back home to be with himself, and the good thief...

Wait, I had a point somewhere...

cydonia

Actually that's a pretty cohesive argument, spacedOut.

SimplyAtheistic

I was gonna start a thread on this subject! I am watching braveheart and it makes me think of suffering. William Wallace (maybe not 100% true) seemed to have suffered much more than Jesus. He had much more to lose and he did not have a gurantee in heaven. How is Jesus so great that his death is considered the ultimate sacrifice? He had insurance and a direct relationship with god! Tell this to a christian though and they will tell you he had the sins of the world on his shoulders, oh how that must have stimulated some nerves
Jake