FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > IIDB ARCHIVE: 200X-2003, PD 2007 > IIDB Philosophical Forums (PRIOR TO JUN-2003)
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 05:55 AM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-31-2002, 02:15 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Monterey, TN
Posts: 25
Post Opthlmadoulian: Visible and Spiritual

10/31/02
Opthlmadoulian: Visible and Spiritual
Ravi Zacharias

Are you opthlmadoulian? Excuse me for asking you a question using an
Ancient Greek word, but opthlmadoulian is such a powerful word—it means a
slave to the eyes. Are you one? Are you a slave to the eyes?

Consider one especially seductive form of sight enslavement: servitude to
the notion that only the visible is real—the belief that all that is real
is visible, and all that is invisible is unreal, or maybe just a fairy
tale.

Take an example of something both invisible and real to help you demolish
this false assumption that reality is exhausted by what you can see with
your eyes. Consider truth—something both invisible and real. If you don't
believe me, tell me where you last saw truth or, for that matter, logic.
You can't because we don't see truth or logic with our eyes. We know truth
as we correctly ascertain the nature of reality. Our experience of truth
is an outworking of our minds interacting with the world. Matter by itself
does not have truth. Mind must come along and make judgments about matter,
and these judgments are true or untrue to the degree that they correspond
with reality. You see, if the universe were devoid of a conscious being,
even though some things would be true about that universe, it would need a
mind to ask the question of truth. Without a mind, such a universe would
just exist without there ever being an experience of truth. Truth requires
a mind to ask truth quesitons, and the mind transcends the visible to make
judgments.

Now ponder another invisible category: the spiritual. Hear the words of
A.W. Tozer, the great Christian mystic: "Our uncorrected thinking
influenced by the blindness of our natural hearts and the intrusive
ubiquity of visible things, tends to draw a contrast between the spiritual
and the real –but actually no such contrast exists. The antithesis lies
elsewhere –between the real and the imaginary, between the spiritual and
the material, between the temporal and the eternal; but between the
spiritual and the real, never. The spiritual is real." (Footnote 1: A.W.
Tozer, The Pursuit of God (Camphill Penn., Christian Publications, 1982)
pp. 56.)

Let me take you one step further than that. It is not enough to justify
something by saying it is spiritual. The truly spiritual (listen carefully
now) must also stand the test of truth. For that you need the mind, not
just the eyes.


Copyright (p)(c) 2001 Ravi Zacharias International Ministries (RZIM)

A Slice of Infinity is a daily radio program aimed at reaching into
the culture with words of challenge, words of truth, and words of hope.
A Slice of Infinity transcripts are also available on the Internet.
If you know of others who would enjoy receiving A Slice of Infinity in
their email box each day, tell them they can sign up on our Web site at
<a href="http://www.sliceofinfinity.org." target="_blank">http://www.sliceofinfinity.org.</a> If they do not have access to the World
Wide Web, please call 1-877-88SLICE(1-877-887-5423).

Copyright notice: A Slice of Infinity may be copied and
re-transmitted by electronic mail, and individual copies of a particular
A Slice of Infinity email transcript may be printed, provided that
such copying, re-transmission, printing, or other use is not for profit
or other commercial purpose. However, A Slice of Infinity may NOT be
reproduced in any form on the World Wide Web or in broadcast media,
print media or other media without express written permission. RZIM
considers requests to reprint, transmit, or otherwise reproduce A Slice
of Infinity (or portions thereof) in broadcast, print, or other media
on a case-by-case basis; please contact RZIM at 1-800-448-6766 to submit
a request.

Any copying, re-transmission, distribution, printing, or other use of A
Slice of Infinity must set forth the following credit line, in full, at
the conclusion of the portion of A Slice of Infinity that is used:

Copyright (p)(c) 2001 Ravi Zacharias International Ministries (RZIM).
Reprinted with permission. A Slice of Infinity is a radio ministry of
Ravi Zacharias International Ministries

Ravi Zacharias International Ministries may withdraw or modify this
grant of permission at any time

<a href="http://www.rzim.org" target="_blank">http://www.rzim.org</a>
<a href="http://www.sliceofinfinity.org" target="_blank">http://www.sliceofinfinity.org</a>
Powerfull Voices is offline  
Old 10-31-2002, 02:27 PM   #2
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Fidel
Posts: 3,383
Post

Wow, does this mean concepts are real, although they are created by humans?

I feel so enlightened. Thank you.

I would be lost without the enlightenment you have granted me. The concept 'lost' is something humans have created too! Isn't that amazing!!!

Now that I know that concepts we create exist, I will go find a concept to worship! Please, someone, tell me which god concept is the best!
Kharakov is offline  
Old 11-02-2002, 06:23 PM   #3
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 1,336
Post

The last time I saw truth?

Well, I'm looking at it right now on my computer screen. The letters I intended to type are the very ones that appear when I type those very letters.

It is true that I just wrote 'It is true'.

Happy?

Keith.
Keith Russell is offline  
Old 11-02-2002, 07:44 PM   #4
G V
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Question

"A.W. Tozer, the great Christian mystic:.... The antithesis lies elsewhere –between the real and the imaginary..."

AWT was the editor of the Christian and Missionary Alliance magazine "The Alliance Witness" whose 8 Aug 1962 editorial was titled "How Important Is Creed?" where he says:

"It is not enough to say that we may have a mystical or numinous experience of God without any doctrinal knowledge and that is sufficient.
No, it is not sufficient. We must worship in truth as well as spirit; and truth can be stated and when it is stated it becomes creed."

Having read his editorials for 3 years, I don't remember AWT as a mystic but rather a very articulate orthodox exponent of C&MA evangelical scholarship.

[ November 02, 2002: Message edited by: G V ]</p>
 
Old 11-04-2002, 06:26 AM   #5
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 1,336
Post

GV:

So, to believe in 'God' doesn't make one a mystic?

(I thought having mystical beliefs was sufficient. What is your view?)

Keith.
Keith Russell is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:37 AM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.