Hero

I often heard ppl saying that God doesn¡¦t exist just because that they do not see the hand of the God lying far above the sky or there is no any scientific evidence for proving such a claim. Though I am an atheist, I would consider the scientific approach to rule out Christianity is not possible. Consider that so called scientific approach is based on observation, hypothesis, experiment, conclusion, actually every step of scientific approach requires us to believe in them. For example, for past few centuries, people believe that mass of an object and time frame is always constant and would not change anyway, so then Newton developed Newtons¡¦ mechanics which virtually explain all the motion and dynamics within the universe. But this was eventually being proved wrong by Albert Einstein who claim that mass of an object and also the relative time would change once it is moving, though to a very small extent and this phenomenon would be only prominent once the object reaches the speed of light. In this way, we would know that our experience is not entirely reliable and sometimes may mislead us into the wrong conclusion. For observation part, we depends on our experience to set some premises to construct our scientific theory, this part involves u to believe in ur experience and u can never prove ur premises, eg in the above case, we observe the mass would always maintain constant within in enclosed system. So we propose that the conservation of mass premise, which is actually wrong as our experience is not accurate enough. So to prove an scientific theory, we require both deduction and belief. Anything that proved by science is not necessarily true.
What I want to say is that even if something like God is proved to exist, it doesn¡¦t mean that it is necessarily to exist in reality. Also, as our experience and science are so limited, no evidence of God existence doesn¡¦t mean necessarily that God doesn¡¦t exist. [just a joke, u would claim that alien doesn¡¦t exist just because u have not seen an alien for ur entire life. Is it a good reason? U just have limited experience on the Earth only, u have not explored the entire universe and find out that alien doesn¡¦t exist]
So if we try to use science to prove the non-existence of God, we can never get our desired result. Christian would claim that they believe in the premise that God exists just like how u believe in the premises in the scientific theory. They would call it faith in God¡K¡K.
For me, I think the best weapon to rule out Christianity is based on their bible. To point our that their bible is full of contradictory statement. So the incoherent nature of the bible indicates that the existence of God described in bible is not possible. If their God is so perfect, how come the bible is full of faults? Here are some lists of contradictory belief in bible:

ON THE SABBATH DAY
"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." -- Exodus 20:8

"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." -- Romans 14:5


ON THE PERMANENCY OF THE EARTH
"... the earth abideth for ever." -- Ecclesiastes 1:4

"... the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." -- 2Peter 3:10


ON SEEING GOD
"... I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." -- Genesis 32:30

"No man hath seen God at any time..."-- John 1:18


ON HUMAN SACRIFICE
"... Thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God..." -- Leviticus 18:21

[In Judges, though, the tale of Jephthah, who led the Israelites against the Ammonoites, is being told. Being fearful of defeat, this good religious man sought to guarantee victory by getting god firmly on his side. So he prayed to god] "... If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering" (Judges 11:30-31).

[The terms were acceptable to god -- remember, he is supposed to be omniscient and know the future -- so he gave victory to Jephthah, and the first whatsoever that greeted him upon his glorious return was his daughter, as god surely knew would happen, if god is god. True to his vow, the general made a human sacrifice of his only child to god!] -- Judges 11:29-34


ON THE POWER OF GOD
"... with God all things are possible." -- Matthew 19:26

"...The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron." -- Judges 1:19


ON DEALING WITH PERSONAL INJURY
"...thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. " -- Exodus 21:23-25

"...ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." -- Matthew 5:39


ON CIRCUMCISION
"This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised." -- Genesis 17:10

"...if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." -- Galatians 5:2


ON INCEST
"Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of this mother..." -- Deuteronomy 27:22

"And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter...it is a wicked thing...." -- Leviticus 20:17

[But what was god's reaction to Abraham, who married his sister -- his father's daughter?] See Genesis 20:11-12

"And God said unto Abraham, As for Sara thy wife...I bless her, and give thee a son also of her..." -- Genesis 17:15-16


ON TRUSTING GOD
"A good man obtaineth favour of the LORD..." -- Proverbs 12:2

Now consider the case of Job. After commissioning Satan to ruin Job financially and to slaughter his shepherds and children to win a petty bet with Satan. God asked Satan: "Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause." -- Job 2:3


ON THE HOLY LIFE-STYLE
"Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart..." -- Ecclesiastes 9:7

"...they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not..." -- 1 Corinthians 7:30


ON PUNISHING CRIME
"The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father..." -- Ezekiel 18:20

"I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation..." -- Exodus 20:5


ON TEMPTATION
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." -- James 1:13

"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham..." -- Genesis 22:1


ON FAMILY RELATIONSHIPS
"Honor thy father and thy mother..."-- Exodus 20:12

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. " -- Luke 14:26


ON RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD
"...he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. " -- Job 7:9

"...the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth...." -- John 5:28-29

Hope everyone would consider twice before they trust on Christianity, it is full of nonsense and fault.

keyser_soze

Preacher, meet the choir...choir, meet the minister.

Well said in all. I think you would enjoy some of the finer writings here at this site. Do a search for whatever catch phrase you like...mine being "atrocities", and read for hours, if not days. Welcome!

Darth Dane

Yes, you just said in yet another way what I have been saying a lot of times, mostly in any case


Thats usually why I say listen to the words of Christ not christianity, if you see the difference. If he was God-Realised and said those things, then it is important to see what he says, and he alone, for the other writings seems faulted in comparison, because they afaik talked with Angels and not God talking directly.

I also say that even if you only believe in science, it is as you say, also a belief and not ultimately knowledge.

Even though there are all those contradictions, those contradictions upholds the yin/yang principle which Buddha taught/teaches was teh makeup of reality so to say, and that those two create together the Tao.

Some say that Tao = God
Some say that Tao / God
Lets look at it with human eyes. Some say that God all in all is bad or Yin. Some say that God all in all is good or Yang.

So from two different people we put this together:

Bad/Yin = God/Tao

Good/Yang = God/Tao

If we come together as humans is it possible to say that together we can form the Tao?


......God
...../.....\
...Yin...Yang
...Bad..Good
.....\...../
......Tao


Could you say that God is right in the middle of Good and bad, Yin and Yang?

And from God everything radiates out to form the Tao?


Waht do you think of this theory?





DD - Love Spliff

JGL53

If god = tao, then god = good. If not, then all bets are off.

Pointing out that the christian babble is full of moral, scientific, and logical fallacies - like contradictions - is fine, until some christian professional apologist shows up and pisses in everyone's whiskey. Those folks can and will explain it all - at least to their satisfaction - and bury you in a mountain of words in the process.

Rather than focusing on arguing Christianity, and that the babble = nonsense, I think the best approach is to explain that 'atheism' (materialsim or naturalism) is the default position. The supernatural and the paranormal apparently are wishfulfillment and fantasy. The burden is on the believer to prove otherwise. So far, for several thousand years now, they have failed to meet their burden of proof. To reiterate the important point: Metaphysical materialism or naturalism is the default position.

Unless proof comes to the fore that proves otherwise, it's perfectly logical to go with the 'beyond any reasonable doubt' assumption that ALL supernatural/paranormal claims are wishfulfillment and fantasy.

Sure, this is extremely hard for most theists/supernaturalists to understand. So, if it interests you, take the time to explain it to them.

Marduk

“
“Bad/Yin = God/Tao

Good/Yang = God/Tao”

I don’t believe this is right, it goes like this:

#42
The Tao begot one
One begot two
Two begot three
And three begot the myriad of all things

God/Tao is neither good or bad, but once you call something good then you also define it’s opposite as bad.

#4
The Tao is an empty vessel; it is used but never filled
Oh unfathomable source of the ten thousand things
Blunt the sharpness
Untangle the knot
Merge with dust
Oh hidden deep but ever present
I do not know from whence it comes
It is the forefather of the emperors

burning

"Metaphysical materialism or naturalism is the default position."

If by "default" you mean "original" or "innate" - implying the existence of a primeval state - then many would certainly agree with the above statement...but extending its logic, would you also agree that we should apply concepts from evolution to refute, say, the Judeo-Christian concept of "God"?

-Sorry if the C-word comes to mind when evolution and God are read in the same sentence. What is really meant: Is it possible to make a case that religion in its current shape(s) is the result of some process of natural selection? As in to demonstrate that, say, henotheism was an undesirable trait, or better yet became an outmoded one, similar to the sabertooth tiger's giant canines? Or what were monotheism's specific adaptations which facilitated comparative success in a similar environment? The possible avenues of investigation go on and on...

You can focus on specific motifs the same way Darwin looked at birds' beaks. Say the concept of "angels": If the winged figures cut into the walls of Sumerian or Egyptian archaeological sites perform a similar role as their Christian counterparts, well, should we then commence the search for a missing link, or some other mode of transmission? Or better yet an ultimate origin, like the vulture shamans of Catal Huyuk as the anthropologist Solecki seems to imply...say, is shamanism a form of metaphysical naturalism?

-Or have I already blurred the lines here? I think you should first clearly delineate the "default position". Evolution dictates survival of the fittest; if "survival" means "popularity", then one can say that the current trends of metaphysical materialism (scientific pantheism?) are themselves inevitable products of evolution.

Wounded King

Lets not forget that the Tao which can be spoken of is not the true Tao.

Darth Dane

Lets not forget that the Tao which can be spoken of is not the true Tao.

Of course it is beyond mere words and thoughts, but we can point towards it, even though my pointing to the Tao isn't the Tao in and of itself.

The refelction of teh moon in a puddle is not teh Moon itself, but it is still reflected there.

Instead of looking through other people's puddles, open your eye and look at the moon itself.





DD - Love Spliff

ps418

In my days as pseudo-mystic, I always identified Tao with the Gnostic plenum. The Tao itself is nothing, but is expressed as an equal opposites. Like 0=1+(-1). I do not see any connection at all between the theistic God -- which is a person with attributes-- and the concept of Tao. They are totally different concepts. I think I could write a much better Tao te Ching, BTW. It would go like this: Sit Down, Be Still, Stop Thinking. That would have prevented so much needless and counterproductive mumbo-jumbo mystical theologizing.

I think the parts of the bible in red letters are just as silly as the parts with the talking donkies. Except for the parts about forgiveness and loving your neighbor, which I think is good advice.

Patrick

Nowhere357

I see the concept of yin/yang expressed throughout reality. Which makes me wonder - IS the concept an aspect of reality, or am I forcing observations into a template?