Infinity Lover

Quoting scrypture is not an atheist thang, but in this case I'll make an exception.

Mathew 7:3:why do you see the speck that's in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that's in your own eye.

How? In this particular case that's how Ronin.

brighid

If the Catholic Church doesn't try to "recruit" people why are their Catholic Missionaries?

The Catholic Church also has a policy that simply breeds more and more of them and to achieve dominance through procreation. Why on Earth do you think they maintain the illogical stance against birth control and require that children be raised in the Catholic Church as part of the oath Catholics make upon marrying?

If they aren't interested in membership why do they proselytize?

Why has the Church had a long history of forced conversions, often by penalty of death? Or the claim to be the only one with the fullness of faith and truth?

The Catholic Church would wither away and die if it did not prompote itself, encourage, demand and "spread" the word of Catholicism over all other religions. The Church is self-serving and does all it can, including making pacts with fascist dictators and genocidal maniacs inorder to "preserve" it's power.

Brighid

Amos

Catholic missionaries work towards the development of third world countries. There they will incorporate the local mythologies and take them under her wings to nurture foster and protect so they may become equals in power, wealth and understanding.

With their omniscient insight they are concerned that birth control will lead to infertility and that sexual freedom will lead to sexual perversion that can only become a disadvantage for the civilization.

To marry outside the Catholic Church is just the reversal of the grounds upon which free love marriages were introduced and blessed by the church. Free love marriages were allowed after Catholicism had become the universal Church and all people were of the same mindset about values, life and religion. To reverse this now does bastardize the children in that their soul nature is often just opposite to the outlook on life held by the parents.

Get real Brighid, only the Churh of England under Henri XIII is know for this and since all roads do lead to Rome no such thing is needed. Only witches may have been treated that way but that was always done out of love for the deceived person that was bewitched.

The Church still is, and always will be, the only one with the fullness of faith and truth for the simple reason that it is the only Church in Christendom that is grounded in truth whereupon the fullness of faith finds its inspiration and nourishment.
Power is a gift of God through the omnipotence of God. It never increases nor decreases but follows truth and love.

joedad

I think someone's been dropping doobies into your incense burner, Amos.
I gotta get me some of that whatever it is you're on. Woooooooooee!

I think Vork did a decent job of pointing out some flaws within an institution which claims the moral high ground., and all stemming from the fact that Roman Catholicism is not an institution which seeks any input. It's a Kleptocracy pure and simple. It's more a political arrangement than a religion, and has been since its inception. It lacks a purpose. It's appears to be an end unto itself.

Also, I've yet to find a catholic that will not defend his or her god's behavior. Even though it kills children for example, killing children is somehow still a good thing. I can't even understand the mindset anymore, though I was raised to eat it up. When you get right down to the biblical nitty-gritty catholics will not back off from their beliefs in this regard. I suppose this is the mindset that has allowed it to harm so many, despite the fact that it has helped at least just as many in some way or other. It must be a loyalty/personal preservation thing, just some fundamental genetic behavior.

I think the RCC would benefit from democratization, but I'm not holding my breath. But it might possibly take the institution closer to that moral high ground it claims to hold.

joe

Amos

Sorry Joe and I realize that this may not be the right way to start off the New Year but gawd it is hard to be humble if you are perfect in every way.

BTW. Brighid just argued that the Catholic Church is about the only Church that does not allow children to be killed. How do you reconcile that?

Malcolm

The best advert for the Catholic Church is Father Ted!

sullster

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Infinity Lover
[B]Are you saying that help is ultimately denied to those unwilling to convert?

As for the ends being sought by an organization such as the catholic church, the answer to your question is an emphatic "yes".

I already admit that some religious are innately driven to help out others, but the church has to do its best to make such individuals not waste their efforts on those unwilling to convert.

sullster

No recruitment you say. What about the schools run by the church which are always trying to get government support(vouchers), in order to get more students. The students must take catholic religion classes, no matter what religion or lack of they have.

True enough, for the most part you catholics don't beat down the doors like the fundies, mormons or JWs, but that is because you have other methods, more subtle, or shall I say-Jesuitical.

Ronin

She does do that alot...I was hoping for a better justification from Sabine, however ~ as she was the one I was addressing.

You'd think that the Big C would have also led by that example...instead of going around like a hypocrite and stirring up all that shit and casting aspersions on the perspectives of others.

BTW, IL ~ using that quote just about nullifies having any opinion at all on anything that may conflict with another...when you use your big head and think about it, that is.

Infinity Lover

Ronin: I know you adressed Sabine... what can I say; it's an open discussion.

She said.
to wich you replied
I though that if you were going to speak on other's behalf, I might as well do the same.

So I posted
Mathew 7:3:why do you see the speck that's in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that's in your own eye.

As an example of how *christ* could be a model at all, with a bit of gospel that actually tied in with her comment.

I'm not saying I dig everything the bible says, but there is the odd bit here and there that rings true in a way.

You're the one that said 'at all', I simply pointed out that it isn't sheer imposibility to find some aspect of Christian doctrine that could be used as a moral pointer.

I'm not so sure of that nullifying statement. I think that the biblequote I used means that you shouldn't critisize without applying self-critisism as well.
According to my personal views, the only bit of world you can positively influence for certain is yourself, and that if you're set on improving the world that's the bit of world to focus on first and formost. That's actually not all that different from what Mathew 7:3: says.

But you're free to disagree off course.