Jeremy Pallant

I don't recall reading this concept in the Bible. Certainly Jesus never said that to be a Christian required that one have a personal relationship with him. He did make clear what was necessary to be saved, but a personal relationship with him wasn't specified.

Additionally, while you might make this claim, in practice Christianity is a religion just as Islam is. Your claim notwithstanding, the actions of your fellows demonstrate that Christianity is a religion. Certainly it does not distinguish itself from the other religions in the world.

Magus55

Christian means "of Christ" or "with Christ" - technically speaking, its more correct to say Christianity is a relationship with Jesus Christ, while protestant, baptist, lutheran, methodist, catholic etc. are Christian "religions".

Christians are christian because they believe in Jesus as their saviour, not because they attend a christian church.

ex-xian

Nope, sorry. The first use of the word christian was in Acts 11:26. A group of disciples were meeting together regularly and that's when people called them christians. They were called this because of their behavior was that of a regular religious group. Furthermore, the dictionary defines "Christian" as one who believes the teachings of Jesus. This means an atheist can be a christian if she more or less agree with Jesus' teachings. The second dictionary definition is one who attends church.

You can't just make up definitions of words to suit yourself.

Really? My life as a devout Christian was hell. I going through a process that could only be described as deconversion and I'm happier than I have ever been. So whose experience is more valid?

Magus55

Mine is more valid since Jesus brings about hope and life, not despair and death. You probably just got worse because God didn't give you everything you wanted

ex-xian

Excuse me, but who the hell do you think you are? You don't know me, you have never had a conversation with me and you make a statement like that. So much for the fruit of the spirit in your life.

As for God not giving me what I wanted. All I wanted was acceptance, peace, joy, happiness, hope. All the stuff you have now. Never got it. Of course, you're going to assume that I wasn't really saved, since no real christians would live like that. You really do need to get out more.

You claim to have hope and life, but you're still bound up in your social anxiety stuff, unable to leave you house and fellowship with other believer's like the bible says to. Sounds like "despair and death" is still an issue in your life. Me, I'm a chronic depressive and I have more peace in life now than ever before.

Magus55

Who do i think i am? Who do you think you all are saying im suffering from delusion and hallucinations because i believe in God?

When did i say i was completely happy and well off? I have clinical depression too,as well as OCD, social phobia, and anxiety disorder. God never promised happiness on earth. In fact he said Christians would have a harder time because those who follow Jesus are ridiculed and persecuted.

And its God's decision to decide whether you truly had faith. Imo, based that you were christian and now completely reject God, i would say you were never saved or born again in Jesus since Jesus said no one can snatch those that love me out of my hand. If you truly were saved, you wouldn't be rejecting him. Again thats imo, but i leave it up to God to decide.

ex-xian

Wow, if I had said that I'd be pretty hypocritical. Good think I didn't say it.
Sounds like your life is still pretty hellish.
And when did I say that I completely reject God? Did you even read my post? Regarding you theology, once again I suggest you look into your spiritual heritage. You have shades of contradictory belief systems. Going to church would probably help you sort out what you believe if nothing else.

Gooch's dad

The "No True Scotsman" fallacy

Your argument is the 'no true scotsman' fallacy, Magus55. In other words, you're wrong once again.

My sister used to speak in tongues and claim to be filled with the holy spirit. She got my other sister to convert, and that 2nd sister is still an evangelical Christian. The first sister, though, is now a happy pagan. And yet you'll claim that she never was a Christian at all.

By your standard, you can't tell if anyone besides yourself is a 'true Christian', because they also might deconvert someday. So you know that you are a Christian, and you can't be sure about anyone else. Doesn't that make you feel all comfy and warm, now?

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: