Freethought & Rationalism Archive

davidH · 11-21-2002, 01:28 PM

I'd like a serious opinion on this here folks:

What would you say if the following story was true?

A man (call him Bob) believed that God was telling him to go to the airport and take a flight over to an island to visit a pastor. He had no idea why God should be telling him to go to this fellow.
However he had no money for the flight over and wouldn't be able to get his hands on any money for he had not yet finished his journey that he was on.
However, praying he asked that God would provide him with the money - that way he would know that God wanted him to go over and visit this pastor.
But God told him that he should go - and then God will provide.
Bob struggled with his but decided to obey and go to the airport - having enough money for the taxi there.
On arriving at the airport he joined the queue for the flight desk....still having no way at all of paying for his flight. As he got closer to the desk he started to think of what he could say in order not to look stupid.
Still with no money the time came when there was only one man infront of him and this desk.
While rehearsing what he was going to tell the girl at the desk - he became concious that the man infront of him was becoming increasingly irratated. Then the man burst into a full blown arguement with the girl behind the desk (the reason for I don't know) and started shouting and swearing. There was obviously some serious problem since the man was not being allowed to pay for his ticket and had all his money out on the desk.
In a fit of rage the man turned around and slapped the money into Bob's hand while exclaiming "Well, I guess I won't be needing this then!" The man stormed off, swearing away leaving Bob standing stunned with the money for his ticket in his hand.
Bob paided for his ticket, praised God, and went to see the pastor.
The pastor as Bob discovered had been put out of the local church - falsly accused, and was extremely distressed. Bob was able to minister to them and be with them.
Then with the return ticket he got back and had just enough money to get a taxi to his original destination.

So what are your thoughts? Chance? Odds? Something else?

Vibr8gKiwi · 11-21-2002, 01:59 PM

Are we supposed to believe that actually happened as stated?

Philosoft · 11-21-2002, 02:02 PM

Non-sequitur theatre:

I would say, "Cake or death?"

Kosh · 11-21-2002, 02:23 PM

I'd say the angry man has some real problems with money management.

Is this your excuse for abandoning the <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=51&t=000741" target="_blank">Exodus</a> thread that you started?

Queen of Swords · 11-21-2002, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by davidH:
What would you say if the following story was true?

I'd say, is this the "Bob" in the Jack Chick comics?

Vibr8gKiwi · 11-21-2002, 02:43 PM

Just for argument's sake, let's pretend the story actually happened exactly as stated, witnesses could attest to it and such. Then here's what I would think:

Right off I would assume this is a simple case of selection. With all the theists out there making predictions, praying for miracles and such, there's bound to be a few that by chance happen to come true. Then of course these few are selected and paraded around as proof of their religion. (though most often the story is just a legend with names and places changing with each retelling). Bottom line, we hear about the few strange chance happenings while never hearing the other millions of flopped-miracle stories that were given a chance but failed.

Of course if someone can produce a pastor that can do such miracles over and over on demand, I'd like to check it out myself and I know some people that would like to test him under controlled conditions to prove to the world that the supernatural exists.

Also I'm sure there are thousands of dying children every day who have people praying for them... this pastor might want to stop getting people free plane rides and put his supernatural abilities towards saving a few of these innocent lives each day instead.

[ November 21, 2002: Message edited by: Vibr8gKiwi ]

trientalis · 11-21-2002, 02:53 PM

Philosoft:

Uhhh, cake, please?

Biff the unclean · 11-21-2002, 02:54 PM

So what are your thoughts? Chance? Odds? Something else?
My thoughts are that the person who told you this story has either a very low opinion of the truth or a very low opinion of your credulity. Xian Urban Myth (XUM)

Vibr8gKiwi · 11-21-2002, 03:09 PM

Here's one for you theists. When I was younger I worked as a magician. One illusion I would sometimes do involved handing a deck of cards to a spectator and asking them to freely name a card. They'd say the name and I'd tell them to turn over the top card and dang if it wasn't the card they named! I never touched the deck the entire time and they could immediately examine the cards to see they were normal.

So what's the explanation to that? Am I supernatural?

[edited to add]

And no it's not an audience plant--it's a free choice from a stranger.

[ November 21, 2002: Message edited by: Vibr8gKiwi ]

Here's a hint... this illusion wasn't done at all my shows.

[ November 21, 2002: Message edited by: Vibr8gKiwi ]

Philosoft · 11-21-2002, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by trientalis:
Philosoft:

Uhhh, cake, please?

*mumbles* We're going to run out of cake at this rate!

Are you sure you don't want death? We have plenty of that.

11-21-2002, 01:28 PM	#1
davidH Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: N.Ireland Posts: 527	Chance or something else? I'd like a serious opinion on this here folks: What would you say if the following story was true? A man (call him Bob) believed that God was telling him to go to the airport and take a flight over to an island to visit a pastor. He had no idea why God should be telling him to go to this fellow. However he had no money for the flight over and wouldn't be able to get his hands on any money for he had not yet finished his journey that he was on. However, praying he asked that God would provide him with the money - that way he would know that God wanted him to go over and visit this pastor. But God told him that he should go - and then God will provide. Bob struggled with his but decided to obey and go to the airport - having enough money for the taxi there. On arriving at the airport he joined the queue for the flight desk....still having no way at all of paying for his flight. As he got closer to the desk he started to think of what he could say in order not to look stupid. Still with no money the time came when there was only one man infront of him and this desk. While rehearsing what he was going to tell the girl at the desk - he became concious that the man infront of him was becoming increasingly irratated. Then the man burst into a full blown arguement with the girl behind the desk (the reason for I don't know) and started shouting and swearing. There was obviously some serious problem since the man was not being allowed to pay for his ticket and had all his money out on the desk. In a fit of rage the man turned around and slapped the money into Bob's hand while exclaiming "Well, I guess I won't be needing this then!" The man stormed off, swearing away leaving Bob standing stunned with the money for his ticket in his hand. Bob paided for his ticket, praised God, and went to see the pastor. The pastor as Bob discovered had been put out of the local church - falsly accused, and was extremely distressed. Bob was able to minister to them and be with them. Then with the return ticket he got back and had just enough money to get a taxi to his original destination. So what are your thoughts? Chance? Odds? Something else?

11-21-2002, 02:29 PM	#5
Queen of Swords Contributor Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Canada. Finally. Posts: 10,155	Originally posted by davidH: <strong>What would you say if the following story was true?</strong> I'd say, is this the "Bob" in the Jack Chick comics?

11-21-2002, 02:43 PM	#6
Vibr8gKiwi Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: CA, USA Posts: 543	Just for argument's sake, let's pretend the story actually happened exactly as stated, witnesses could attest to it and such. Then here's what I would think: Right off I would assume this is a simple case of selection. With all the theists out there making predictions, praying for miracles and such, there's bound to be a few that by chance happen to come true. Then of course these few are selected and paraded around as proof of their religion. (though most often the story is just a legend with names and places changing with each retelling). Bottom line, we hear about the few strange chance happenings while never hearing the other millions of flopped-miracle stories that were given a chance but failed. Of course if someone can produce a pastor that can do such miracles over and over on demand, I'd like to check it out myself and I know some people that would like to test him under controlled conditions to prove to the world that the supernatural exists. Also I'm sure there are thousands of dying children every day who have people praying for them... this pastor might want to stop getting people free plane rides and put his supernatural abilities towards saving a few of these innocent lives each day instead. [ November 21, 2002: Message edited by: Vibr8gKiwi ]</p>

11-21-2002, 03:09 PM	#9
Vibr8gKiwi Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: CA, USA Posts: 543	Here's one for you theists. When I was younger I worked as a magician. One illusion I would sometimes do involved handing a deck of cards to a spectator and asking them to freely name a card. They'd say the name and I'd tell them to turn over the top card and dang if it wasn't the card they named! I never touched the deck the entire time and they could immediately examine the cards to see they were normal. So what's the explanation to that? Am I supernatural? [edited to add] And no it's not an audience plant--it's a free choice from a stranger. [ November 21, 2002: Message edited by: Vibr8gKiwi ] Here's a hint... this illusion wasn't done at all my shows. [ November 21, 2002: Message edited by: Vibr8gKiwi ]</p>

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11-21-2002, 01:59 PM	#2
Vibr8gKiwi Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: CA, USA Posts: 543	Are we supposed to believe that actually happened as stated?

11-21-2002, 02:02 PM	#3
Philosoft Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Southeast of disorder Posts: 6,829	Non-sequitur theatre: I would say, "Cake or death?"

11-21-2002, 02:23 PM	#4
Kosh Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Orions Belt Posts: 3,911	I'd say the angry man has some real problems with money management. Is this your excuse for abandoning the <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=51&t=000741" target="_blank">Exodus</a> thread that you started?

11-21-2002, 02:53 PM	#7
trientalis Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Washington state Posts: 848	Philosoft: Uhhh, cake, please?

11-21-2002, 02:54 PM	#8
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	So what are your thoughts? Chance? Odds? Something else? My thoughts are that the person who told you this story has either a very low opinion of the truth or a very low opinion of your credulity. Xian Urban Myth (XUM)

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