Jinto

Eh? What is it you're trying to say here? That a child knows that parents are hypocritical?

What? Oh, I get it, you're confusing authority with morality. In that case, I declare myself to be a higher authority than you, because I have no need of someone else to explain morality to me.

Two things:
A) Have you ever read this thing called the old testament? It's quite horrible. I wouldn't have read it myself, except that I wanted to annoy Christians who think it's the end-all be-all of morality.
B) What makes you think that God would have to be omnibenevolent in order to be omnipotent?

Except for the eternal torture after they died. Remember, they didn't keep the law perfectly, and they never accepted Jesus's death for their sins, so both of them are now in hell. According to the bible, anyway.

Who said anything about freewill? All I'm saying is that if God is going to abort some fetuses based on who they will become, then He really ought to make beter selections than he's currently making. How does that say ANYTHING about freewill?

yguy

You better believe it. They may not KNOW they know it immediately, but eventually it sinks in.

Real morality IS authority. That's why Christ was able to drive those moneychangers out of the temple.

I wish you all the luck you deserve in your newfound position.

I've read most of it. You bet it's horrible. Had Adam not been such an idiot, none of it would have happened.

I will grant you the theoretical possibility. Enjoy.

I'm not a Bible literalist. Apocryphal works say the patriarchs, prophets and some other were rescued from Hell when Jesus broke down the doors.

Oh, please. It's implicit in this statement:

"Why not? After all, according to you he SHOULD be a better judge of the potential future of any being than mere humans."

For God to follow this advice would mean only people who would unerringly follow His will could be born.

Obviously He has a different objective in mind than you do.

winstonjen

Who was the even bigger fool that put the forbidden tree in the garden and tempted them by telling them not to eat from it?

So? At least then no one would suffer in hell. If god exists as depicted in the bible, then it follows that he WANTS people to suffer in hell.

kctan

If I kill you & feel no pain of conscience, then am I considered good ?


Big relevance. If god sees everything you do as bad, you ain't gonna do anything good at all in god's sense. See the relevance now ?

What makes you think that human laws ain't based upon god's will ?

If you attribute creation to a god then it's logical to ascribe human frailties to said god.

Precisely the point. There's no objective standard at all which means in the end it's still 'might makes right'. God can't be a standard at all, not for the reason of being the creator. Unless it's being spelt out precisely & god following it to the letter, then we can say that your god have a standard of morality. Whether we agreed to such a standard or not is still open for discussion though.

Bill Snedden

Unfortunately, according to the Bible (Romans 13), the Nazi government was instituted by God, as are all civil authorities. Disobedience to one is disobedience to the other, as Paul wrote: "Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."

This also means, as kctan alluded, that all human laws are instituted by God, which in turn means that abortion is not murder, but justified killing, permissible under God's moral law.

Q.E.D.

Regards,

Bill Snedden

yguy

By that logic, we shouldn't conceive children, since only a fool would subject the child to the possibility of suffering.

yguy

I don't know that this can be interpreted so rigidly, especially since Paul himself was no particular friend of authorities, if memory serves. Neither, of course, was Christ.

In any case, if he meant that we should be slaves to authority, and that the Jews who allowed themselves to be herded like sheep to the slaughter were somehow virtuous, screw'im, and screw his God too.

yguy

I would say that depends on why. If you feel no guilt, either you are at one with your conscience, or you have none. Therefore, in the first case the answer is yes, and in the second case, no.

No. Why would God think everything you do is bad?

In large part they are, but that's beside the point. It behooves us not to mistake the law for its foundation, lest we become pharisees, stoning adulterous women openly and devouring widows' houses in secret.

The logic in this deduction eludes me completely.

If there were, it would be higher than God, just as the law is higher than you and I, wouldn't it?

Of course he doesn't HAVE it. He doesn't need it any more than an honest man needs a law to keep him from stealing. It isn't in him to do it.

Shadowy Man

It depends. Did Hitler have free will?


Hmm.. maybe this explains a lot considering that Adam was made in God's image.

yguy

I believe so. Your point?