Freethought & Rationalism Archive

braces_for_impact · 06-05-2002, 03:00 PM

Alright, this is the first thread that I've ever started, but I have a question. I would like to hear specifically from Theists on this point, though anyone can contribute. I forsee a lot of jokes coming from non-theists on this, but here it goes...

What is heaven like?

I understand it is eternity, or very close to it. I remember reading some Mark Twain, where he mentioned church. He mentions watching parishoners in church, singing hymns, squirming in their seats, and practically running for the door to get out after service is over. He then mentions the fact that many christians maintain that heaven is somewhat like church for eternity! In any case, heaven is supposed to be eternal bliss. What can one possibly do for eternity without getting bored? And supposedly their is no sin in heaven as well. Does this mean that you give up your free will upon entering this paradise? How else can one be happy and sinless all the time, forever? If heaven is a sinless environment, how did Satan and various other angels manage it? And if god can grant eternal happiness without the abilty to sin in heaven, why not on earth? Anyone?

LotusEater · 06-05-2002, 03:29 PM

I always find it funny how "souls" in heaven are always depicted in the physical image of someone. I thought the "soul" was something that transcends the body, so why do spirits seem to take the form of bodies?

Also hasn't science killed off the human soul much like science and rationalism killed "God"? Heaven too must have been destroyed with these killings. The soul is no longer mysterious, it is man's sophisticated brain, the "soul" can be reduced to electrical impulses and chemical reactions, the soul is physical and not transcendant.

Marduk · 06-05-2002, 03:39 PM

I had some really good acid once and thought I was in Heaven, but it only lasted a few hours, not an eternity.
I saw a movie where Robin Williams died and went to heaven, you could imagine anything you wanted and it would become real, he walked into some paintings, floated about the landscape, looked like fun.
The Satan story makes no sense, unless you grant that it was based on an old story about the Sumerian gods fighting for dominion of Earth.

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: marduck ]

philechat · 06-05-2002, 04:51 PM

I feel that people must not have any "personality" in heaven, at least as depicted as a place with "perfect justice, no suffering, no sin". Otherwise I wonder how one can live without any joy of problem-solving, challenges, competition, or overcoming suffering--such an (after)life will be meaningless. And the fact that God (of the Bible) were still going to be obeyed (can we choose to disobey Him in heaven? That will be half the fun), and then constantly listening to a faceless obsequieous crowd saying "I am so happy, praise the Lord!"

IMHO I will commit suicide in such a world.

wait...you say you can't die in heaven? AHHH GOD HELP ME!!!

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: philechat ]

Monkeybot · 06-05-2002, 05:12 PM

I think this might find a better home in Miscellaneous Religion Discussions.

NOGO · 06-06-2002, 02:05 PM

What is Heaven like?

Quote:

Isaiah 40:22
It is He who [Or is enthroned] sits above the [Or vault] circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

We are all going to go camping.

braces_for_impact · 06-06-2002, 02:22 PM

I've always thought that heaven sounded more like a personal hell to me. Not to mention all the supposedly cool people would seem to be in hell or destined for it anyway. I know at the very least music would rock in hell. If the only alternative is elevator music, Pat Boone, and christian rock in heaven, I can safely say I've made the correct choice in being an atheist. I mean, what's wailing and gnashing of teeth compared to having to hear easy listening music all the time?

lpetrich · 06-06-2002, 04:10 PM

Heaven also poses problems for a certain kind of apologetic: theodicy. According to that apologetic, it is necessary that certain bad things happen in order to make certain good things happen. This quickly degenerates into Panglossianism, the belief that this is the best of all possible worlds.

However, in Heaven, no bad things would happen, so according to theodicy, the resulting good things could not happen. Meaning that Heaven is therefore not completely good.

Bree · 06-06-2002, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by marduck:

I saw a movie where Robin Williams died and went to heaven, you could imagine anything you wanted and it would become real, he walked into some paintings, floated about the landscape, looked like fun.

That is a fantastic movie and an even greater book. It pretty much encompasses what I believe about the "afterlife" if you can even call it that.

[ June 07, 2002: Message edited by: Bree ]

seebs · 06-07-2002, 09:38 AM

I have no idea. A lot of my vague theories about it reflect the ideas C. S. Lewis presented in _The Great Divorce_, but I don't spend a lot of time worrying. I am assured that it will be cool, if I make it there, and that I can probably make it there if I stop worrying all the time and trust God. So... I don't have much of an opinion. I would hope my memory will be better.

06-05-2002, 03:00 PM	#1
braces_for_impact Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In a nondescript, black helicopter. Posts: 6,637	Nature of Heaven. Alright, this is the first thread that I've ever started, but I have a question. I would like to hear specifically from Theists on this point, though anyone can contribute. I forsee a lot of jokes coming from non-theists on this, but here it goes... What is heaven like? I understand it is eternity, or very close to it. I remember reading some Mark Twain, where he mentioned church. He mentions watching parishoners in church, singing hymns, squirming in their seats, and practically running for the door to get out after service is over. He then mentions the fact that many christians maintain that heaven is somewhat like church for eternity! In any case, heaven is supposed to be eternal bliss. What can one possibly do for eternity without getting bored? And supposedly their is no sin in heaven as well. Does this mean that you give up your free will upon entering this paradise? How else can one be happy and sinless all the time, forever? If heaven is a sinless environment, how did Satan and various other angels manage it? And if god can grant eternal happiness without the abilty to sin in heaven, why not on earth? Anyone?

06-05-2002, 03:39 PM	#3
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	I had some really good acid once and thought I was in Heaven, but it only lasted a few hours, not an eternity. I saw a movie where Robin Williams died and went to heaven, you could imagine anything you wanted and it would become real, he walked into some paintings, floated about the landscape, looked like fun. The Satan story makes no sense, unless you grant that it was based on an old story about the Sumerian gods fighting for dominion of Earth. [ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: marduck ]</p>

06-05-2002, 04:51 PM	#4
philechat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Mind of the Other Posts: 886	I feel that people must not have any "personality" in heaven, at least as depicted as a place with "perfect justice, no suffering, no sin". Otherwise I wonder how one can live without any joy of problem-solving, challenges, competition, or overcoming suffering--such an (after)life will be meaningless. And the fact that God (of the Bible) were still going to be obeyed (can we choose to disobey Him in heaven? That will be half the fun), and then constantly listening to a faceless obsequieous crowd saying "I am so happy, praise the Lord!" IMHO I will commit suicide in such a world. wait...you say you can't die in heaven? AHHH GOD HELP ME!!! [ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: philechat ]</p>

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06-05-2002, 03:29 PM	#2
LotusEater Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 8	I always find it funny how "souls" in heaven are always depicted in the physical image of someone. I thought the "soul" was something that transcends the body, so why do spirits seem to take the form of bodies? Also hasn't science killed off the human soul much like science and rationalism killed "God"? Heaven too must have been destroyed with these killings. The soul is no longer mysterious, it is man's sophisticated brain, the "soul" can be reduced to electrical impulses and chemical reactions, the soul is physical and not transcendant.

06-05-2002, 05:12 PM	#5
Monkeybot Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: North Carolina Posts: 8,102	I think this might find a better home in Miscellaneous Religion Discussions.

06-06-2002, 02:22 PM	#7
braces_for_impact Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In a nondescript, black helicopter. Posts: 6,637	I've always thought that heaven sounded more like a personal hell to me. Not to mention all the supposedly cool people would seem to be in hell or destined for it anyway. I know at the very least music would rock in hell. If the only alternative is elevator music, Pat Boone, and christian rock in heaven, I can safely say I've made the correct choice in being an atheist. I mean, what's wailing and gnashing of teeth compared to having to hear easy listening music all the time?

06-06-2002, 04:10 PM	#8
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Heaven also poses problems for a certain kind of apologetic: theodicy. According to that apologetic, it is necessary that certain bad things happen in order to make certain good things happen. This quickly degenerates into Panglossianism, the belief that this is the best of all possible worlds. However, in Heaven, no bad things would happen, so according to theodicy, the resulting good things could not happen. Meaning that Heaven is therefore not completely good.

06-07-2002, 09:38 AM	#10
seebs Contributor Join Date: May 2002 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 24,524	I have no idea. A lot of my vague theories about it reflect the ideas C. S. Lewis presented in _The Great Divorce_, but I don't spend a lot of time worrying. I am assured that it will be cool, if I make it there, and that I can probably make it there if I stop worrying all the time and trust God. So... I don't have much of an opinion. I would hope my memory will be better.

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