ChrisJGQ

The burden of proof is on you, as the theist, and not Mr Darwin. Also, the title of this thread is "Convince me there IS a god", which seems to suggest he wants your arguments that there is a god.

Also, it is not enough to simply state that:

1.) Humans are flawed
2.) Humans use logic
3.) Therefore logic, when employed by humans, is flawed

I'm not trying to claim that when humans use logic (or attempt to) they are always correct. I'm simply stating that you must point out what you believe the flaws in logic are. Furthermore, if logic is so inherently flawed, why should I believe your ideas, which were based on this 'flawed logic', over anyone else's? That is assuming you used logic (or attempted to...) to arrive to your conclusions. If you however DIDN'T use logic to arrive to your conclusion, then responding to you is pointless.

[ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: Captain Violence ]</p>

Dr S

I'm still waiting to hear why "God is a logically necessary Being".
The only way that I can see a statement like that standing is if we threw out everything that we have learned in the past 500 years.

How does this differ from "Lightning proves that Thor is a logically necessary being?"

MrDarwin

Okay, then let's cut through the s*** right now. Let's grant that "God is a logically necessary being." In fact, let's grant that there is a God.

Now then, can we move on to my original question: is there any evidence that this God is benevolent? I say I see no such evidence in the world around us. You say you do. So let's hear it, what is this evidence? Because your continued reluctance to answer this simple, straightforward question just leads me to believe that you have no answer.

[ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: MrDarwin ]</p>

hinduwoman

I still have not got how God is logically neccessary, unless you mean that it is logically impossible to prove there is no God. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Typhon

Wally doesn't reply to your questions about why "god is a logical necessity" because he is unable to, in any sort of credible way.

It's his time worn and favorite knee-jerk cry for everything it seems, and he still hasn't been able to show even the faintest shred of evidence for this being remotely true.

I would assume if he was capable of backing up this ludicrous statement, he would have already had a go at it by now.

When you see the Walrus speaking, you might as well just say "goo goo g'joob" or chant over and over again "do not anger the Time Cube!"

It will get you just about as far with the Eggman as anything.

Best of luck,

.T.

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together
See how they run like pigs from a gun, see how they fly, I'm crying

Sitting on a cornflake, waiting for the van to come
Corporation tee-shirt, stupid bloody Tuesday
Man, You been naughty boy, you let your face grow long
I am the eggman, oh they are the eggmen, oh I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob

Mister city policeman sitting
Pretty little policemen in a row
See how they fly like Lucy in the sky, see how they run
I'm crying, I'm crying, I'm crying, I'm crying

Yellow matter custard, dripping from a dead dog's eye
Crabalocker fishwife, pornographic priestess
Boy you been a naughty girl you let your knickers down
I am the eggman, oh they are the eggmen, oh I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob

Sitting in an English garden waiting for the sun
If the sun don't come, you get a tan from standing in the English rain
I am the eggman, oh they are the eggmen, oh I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob

Expert textpert choking smokers, don't you think the joker laughs at you?
See how they smile like pigs in a sty, see how they snied, I'm crying

Semolina pilchards, climbing up the Eiffel Tower
Elementary penguin singing Hare Krishna man, you should have seen them kicking Edgar Allan Poe

I am the eggman, oh they are the eggmen, oh I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob
G'goo goo g'joob, goo goo g'joob, g'goo goo g'joob, goo

- I Am the Walrus, Written By Lennon/McCartney

[ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: Typhon ]</p>

WJ

Look guys/gals,

I'm certainly capable of proving my case. Before we get into the benevolence issues, I've talked about the resolution of the liar's paradox, do I have to repeat the scenario again? Well, before I do, just a house keping note to typon. When George Harrison died he asserted that a lot of things in life can wait, but the search for God cannot.

By the way, would any of you care to see our band play?

Ok, back to biz. Atheism is based primarily upon analytic propositions and deductive logic. (true/false?). If that is true, playing around with words, and the relationships between them, results in statements like...'there exists no true propositions'. (Think of it like moving mathmatical symbols around only use language instead.) Now, we know it is logically impossible for there to exist no true propositions (I'm shortening that version here).
So the subsequent statement that there must exist at least one true proposition is logically necessary. just like in mathematics there are necessary numbers as required to work out a formula or theory, there are necessary 'truths' about the world that are a prerequisite to our system of thought.

Now, are analytical propostions and deduction the cure all with respect to making a judgement about a topic such as EOG? No. And I think mrdarwin finally admitted it. Thankyou.

....got to run

WJ

...sorry, I thought there was an emergency I had to attend to...


mrdarwin, do we want to talk about your concerns regarding benevolence? What is the essence of your argument?

Contradiction?

Walrus

bluefugue

Neither can the search for Zorkon, my personal deity who roams the universe on his purple surfboard.

Get searchin', WJ!

(And by the way, if we are going to start quoting Beatles as a basis for religious conviction, may I offer John Lennon's "I don't believe in Jesus"?)

Lord Asriel

What just happened here? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Jack the Bodiless

I suspect that he asserted that before he died, not when he died.
There is.