Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Defiant Heretic · 10-12-2002, 01:39 AM

ManM:
Let's assume for the sake of argument that Yahweh/God is omnipotent. He's all powerful. He can do anything.

What is preventing him from simply waving a magic wand and saying " *POOF!* You're all forgiven.", recreating the Garden of Eden, and sending all of us there?

Why sacrifice his son? No omnipotent being would be forced to do anything. He would need to choose this option himself, despite the fact that he could remedy the problem any way he desired.

Buffman · 10-12-2002, 02:57 AM

Hinduwoman

You are attempting to apply logic and reason to a myth. The only logic or reason that one can find in a myth is someone's attempt to explain the unknown in terms that can still the fears of the masses about their future demise. Virgin births and resurrections are created in the minds of humans. Those tales were around long before they were placed on scrolls and parchment and assembled into the Holy Bible.

The only thing that Christian manipulators really promoted was the ridiculous concept of "Original Sin." That is why they have the biggest Eternal Life Insurance Company in the world...and why they are so rich. They never have to payoff a single policy holder. All they have to do to sell policies is point to a fake picture of Jesus and say, "Well, he came back, didn't he?"

If there was no Jesus, or if the person claiming he was the Christ Child, is not resurrected, Christianity crumbles into the historical dust heap off all superstitions and myths.

IMO, if you wish to challenge Christian's on their home field, the Holy Bible, then you are an automatic loser in the "Big Picture." The Judeo-Christian bible is merely an amalgamation of mortally selected, ancient, goat herder, campfire tales used to explain the unknown. There is nothing divine or sacred about it beyond the outrageous and unverifiable claims of the mesmerized adherents.

<a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/index.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/index.shtml</a>

Dr. Retard · 10-12-2002, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Mageth:
Vanderzyden:
Not to a "christian". Rather, it's repulsive to a creature of pride.

But you said:

The very idea is repugnant, it is illogical. It isn't the way that I would arrange it.

Are you a creature of pride, then?

Vanderzyden:
Yes, most assuredly. There is not one human that isn't.

Then why did you say "[r]ather"? That suggests a contrast between a Christian and a creature of pride. The best sense I can make of your statements: You are not a Christian. This explains why you would be a creature of pride, and also find things repugnant.

10-12-2002, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by K:
ManM:

I don't think you understand whay I'm am trying to say. According to the legend, Jesus had to die for our sins.

I don't know about legend but Jesus died for the sins of his own world because he lotd us that we must follow him. The implied message here is that we must do the same for our sins if we want to enter heaven.

Quote:

I assumed that it was God that decided that Jesus' death was required as atonement for our sins.

You countered and said that we were the ones who decided the requirement for Jesus' death. That's why I pointed out that since we decided what the atonement should look like, we should have chosen something worthwhile like the end of suffering instead of the death of God.

The highter power was God indeed and the Jesus identity was the human nature personified here on behalf of our human nature.

We decided because it was the Law that convicted Jesus the Jew. If you can think of a better way to eliminate suffering and death, please present it to us.

Jesus was not God but the human nature of the animal man who was created in the image of God. This human nature was to be resurrected and added to the Christ identity, indeed, but not until after death. Notice that the Gospels never refer to Jesus as Christ except in Mark where the Gospels extend beyond Crucifixion and Assention.

leonarde · 10-12-2002, 07:26 AM

Posted by Bible Humper:

Quote:

18A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

19"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

Well, since christianity has adopted the idea of identifying the founder with the actual deity, what is the difference between "me" and "God" in the Jesus quote above?

In a sense none. But this is an instance of an
incredibly (dryly)ironic observation being made
in a very pithy way. Namely:

1)a theological point is being made that, comparatively speaking, all humans (excepting perhaps the speaker due to the Incarnation)are
"bad" is some sense, though obviously the degree
can vary.

2)but simultaneously Jesus is, in his question/
statement, sounding out his interlocutor: do you
really know what you are saying when you call me "good teacher"?? (ie do you realize that your phrase itself implies that I am divine?)Or is it just a polite form of address?

Cheers!

Vanderzyden · 10-12-2002, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Buffman:

...The Judeo-Christian bible is merely an amalgamation of mortally selected, ancient, goat herder, campfire tales used to explain the unknown.

...spoken by a person of the highest sophistication, I'm sure.

Vanderzyden

Vanderzyden · 10-12-2002, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Retard:


Then why did you say "[r]ather"? That suggests a contrast between a Christian and a creature of pride. The best sense I can make of your statements: You are not a Christian. This explains why you would be a creature of pride, and also find things repugnant.

There is yet a third alternative: both. A follower of Christ knows full well that he is a creature of pride. I realize that may still yet sound confusing, so let me know if you would like to know more (by asking pointed questions).

Vanderzyden

Buffman · 10-12-2002, 09:49 AM

Vanderzyden

Most people don't seek the truth

Most people don't know how to seek the verifiable evidence...so they make it up and call it the truth.

Vanderzyden · 10-12-2002, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Buffman:
Most people don't know how to seek the verifiable evidence...so they make it up and call it the truth.

Yes, I agree. To what, exactly, are you alluding?

Buffman · 10-12-2002, 11:30 AM

Holy Bible divinity.

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10-12-2002, 01:39 AM	#41
Defiant Heretic Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,288	ManM: Let's assume for the sake of argument that Yahweh/God is omnipotent. He's all powerful. He can do anything. What is preventing him from simply waving a magic wand and saying " POOF! You're all forgiven.", recreating the Garden of Eden, and sending all of us there? Why sacrifice his son? No omnipotent being would be forced to do anything. He would need to choose this option himself, despite the fact that he could remedy the problem any way he desired.

10-12-2002, 02:57 AM	#42
Buffman Beloved Deceased Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: central Florida Posts: 3,546	Hinduwoman You are attempting to apply logic and reason to a myth. The only logic or reason that one can find in a myth is someone's attempt to explain the unknown in terms that can still the fears of the masses about their future demise. Virgin births and resurrections are created in the minds of humans. Those tales were around long before they were placed on scrolls and parchment and assembled into the Holy Bible. The only thing that Christian manipulators really promoted was the ridiculous concept of "Original Sin." That is why they have the biggest Eternal Life Insurance Company in the world...and why they are so rich. They never have to payoff a single policy holder. All they have to do to sell policies is point to a fake picture of Jesus and say, "Well, he came back, didn't he?" If there was no Jesus, or if the person claiming he was the Christ Child, is not resurrected, Christianity crumbles into the historical dust heap off all superstitions and myths. IMO, if you wish to challenge Christian's on their home field, the Holy Bible, then you are an automatic loser in the "Big Picture." The Judeo-Christian bible is merely an amalgamation of mortally selected, ancient, goat herder, campfire tales used to explain the unknown. There is nothing divine or sacred about it beyond the outrageous and unverifiable claims of the mesmerized adherents. <a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/index.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/index.shtml</a>

10-12-2002, 09:49 AM	#48
Buffman Beloved Deceased Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: central Florida Posts: 3,546	Vanderzyden Most people don't seek the truth Most people don't know how to seek the verifiable evidence...so they make it up and call it the truth.

10-12-2002, 11:30 AM	#50
Buffman Beloved Deceased Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: central Florida Posts: 3,546	Holy Bible divinity.

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