Freethought & Rationalism Archive

hinduwoman · 10-10-2002, 06:01 PM

Jesus is a Saviour, but not of everyone.

Jesus does not come down to punish evildoers and reward the virtuous. Instead Jesus died for the sins of evildoers. But does this not show a contempt for people who are doing good? He does not die to show the good their efforts are appreciated.

Why do good if your god is more interested in the sheep that strays, than the one who stays on the path? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

10-10-2002, 06:47 PM

Good thinking hinduwoman but be not confused.

The fact is that Jesus died for the sins of his world and told us to do the same when he told us to follow him.

The sins of his world were the sins of Joseph because Jesus could not sin after he had been set free from the law.

[ October 10, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]

Eudaimonist · 10-10-2002, 07:08 PM

Okay, now you may be confused, hinduwoman.

Vanderzyden · 10-10-2002, 07:33 PM

HW,

To address this inquiry, we would need to back up and talk about what means to be "doing good". Here's something to ponder from Luke chapter 18:

18A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

19"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

...

26Those who heard this asked, "Who then can be saved?"

27Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."

Strange, is it not, that Jesus would say such a thing. Hmmm.....

Vanderzyden

[ October 10, 2002: Message edited by: Vanderzyden ]

10-10-2002, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vanderzyden:
HW,

...

26Those who heard this asked, "Who then can be saved?"

27Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."

Strange, is it not, that Jesus would say such a thing. Hmmm.....

Vanderzyden

[ October 10, 2002: Message edited by: Vanderzyden ]

Fair enough but when the apostles asked Jesus "then who can be saved" they were obviously not saved themselves or they would have known what it was like to be saved.

The question now becomes, if the apostles, who did all of those things none of us ever do, were not saved, how is it that we can be saved while we do none of those things the apostles did?

Bible Humper · 10-10-2002, 09:16 PM

Quote:

18A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

19"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

Well, since christianity has adopted the idea of identifying the founder with the actual deity, what is the difference between "me" and "God" in the Jesus quote above?

Quote:

Fair enough but when the apostles asked Jesus "then who can be saved" they were obviously not saved themselves or they would have known what it was like to be saved.

But the apostles could raise the dead, Amos! If they didn't know whether they were saved or not, what was there to stop them from just repeatedly resurrecting each other and never taking the chance that they weren't saved?

Quote:

The question now becomes, if the apostles, who did all of those things none of us ever do, were not saved, how is it that we can be saved while we do none of those things the apostles did?

I can do everything the apostles did, I just need the right scrolls and wands handy.

In fact, I remember seeing that some of the very earliest paintings of Jesus had him carrying a wand, used for healing IIRC.

Dargo · 10-11-2002, 05:51 AM

Christians believe that no one can ever be good enough to get into heaven on their own. There is a verse somewhere in the new testament that says "for all have sinned and come short of the glory of god." Christians have come up with all sorts of bizare rationalizations as to why god would need to kill himself to appease his anger, but none of them make much sense to nonbelievers.

Jamie_L · 10-11-2002, 05:55 AM

Since he's no longer with us, I'll re-post a favorite quote on the topic from Koyaanisqatsi:

Quote:

...it is patently absurd [to believe in]... a god who trifurcates into flesh in order to kill himself as a necessary sacrifice to himself in order to save all of us from himself, when he's to blame for creating us all that way to begin with.

Jamie

ManM · 10-11-2002, 05:58 AM

hinduwoman,

Quote:

Why did Jesus die for our sins?

So that we all might have eternal life.

Quote:

Why do good if your god is more interested in the sheep that strays, than the one who stays on the path?

The healthy do not need a doctor. If you are well, do you give yourself a sickness so that the doctor will heal you?

[ October 11, 2002: Message edited by: ManM ]

K · 10-11-2002, 09:28 AM

ManM:

Why does God require Jesus (who supposedly is God) to suffer and die a brutal death in order to cleanse us of our sins? Being God and all, couldn't He just cleanse us of our sins? Why did He set it up that He would have to commit suicide in order for our sins to be forgiven?

10-10-2002, 06:01 PM	#1
hinduwoman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: India Posts: 6,977	Why did Jesus die for our sins? Jesus is a Saviour, but not of everyone. Jesus does not come down to punish evildoers and reward the virtuous. Instead Jesus died for the sins of evildoers. But does this not show a contempt for people who are doing good? He does not die to show the good their efforts are appreciated. Why do good if your god is more interested in the sheep that strays, than the one who stays on the path? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

10-10-2002, 06:47 PM	#2
Amos Guest Posts: n/a	Good thinking hinduwoman but be not confused. The fact is that Jesus died for the sins of his world and told us to do the same when he told us to follow him. The sins of his world were the sins of Joseph because Jesus could not sin after he had been set free from the law. [ October 10, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]</p>

10-10-2002, 07:33 PM	#4
Vanderzyden Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: California Posts: 694	HW, To address this inquiry, we would need to back up and talk about what means to be "doing good". Here's something to ponder from Luke chapter 18: 18A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" 19"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone. ... 26Those who heard this asked, "Who then can be saved?" 27Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God." Strange, is it not, that Jesus would say such a thing. Hmmm..... Vanderzyden [ October 10, 2002: Message edited by: Vanderzyden ]</p>

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

10-10-2002, 07:08 PM	#3
Eudaimonist Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Sundsvall, Sweden Posts: 3,159	Okay, now you may be confused, hinduwoman.

10-11-2002, 05:51 AM	#7
Dargo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texas Posts: 713	Christians believe that no one can ever be good enough to get into heaven on their own. There is a verse somewhere in the new testament that says "for all have sinned and come short of the glory of god." Christians have come up with all sorts of bizare rationalizations as to why god would need to kill himself to appease his anger, but none of them make much sense to nonbelievers.

10-11-2002, 09:28 AM	#10
K Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,485	ManM: Why does God require Jesus (who supposedly is God) to suffer and die a brutal death in order to cleanse us of our sins? Being God and all, couldn't He just cleanse us of our sins? Why did He set it up that He would have to commit suicide in order for our sins to be forgiven?

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.