Seeker196

"God apparently is everywhere including outside of the universe."

This is a very interesting topic to me.
What is your OT scriptural basis for this?

I called the original, pre-Pauline and pre-dross of Greek beliefs God a 'sky-god' because of his similarities to the other 'pantheon head' type gods, all of whom were gods of thunder, cloud, heaven, lightning etc (Zeus, Marduk, Odin, Thor).

Also, I believe the OT has a 'core' of the original patheistic, oral tradition, a core that pokes through in various places, especially where god is physicalized or anthropomorphosized (the wrestling with god, gods hands, sandals, 'back parts', god looking or walking, the spirit moving over the waters, God setting his Bow in the sky).

Also, God's wrath in the OT descends from above. The fire that destroyed Sodom and Gommorah, the Flood, and God striking down various people. Jacob's ladder incident seems to place heaven in a location above the earth, indicating a aerial, rain giving god. God is sometimes described as a whirlwind, a cloud, or a pillar of fire from heaven in Exodus.

When and where in the Bible does God start becoming the more sophisticated, 'at one with universe' type god that we see in the NT?

Pitshade

This really belongs in a higher forum.

ex-preacher

Are you talking to me? Are you quoting me? I never made such a statement unless I was heavily medicated. Perhaps you have me confused with another?


Edited to add:

Ah, I've figured it out. You have me confused with excreationist. Not the first time this has happened to me.

[ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: ex-preacher ]</p>

excreationist

Yeah, this is for me, not ex-preacher...maybe my [/sermon] post helped to confuse you.

Well I was talking about what Christians believe - not necessarily what has Biblical support. Well here's some verses:

Psalms 139:7-9,18 - "Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths [Sheol], you are there. If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even there your hand will guide me... When I awake, I am still with you."

Isaiah 57:15 - "...I live in a high and holy place, but *also* with him who is contrite and lowly in spirit."

Isaiah 66:1 "...Heaven is my throne and earth is my footstool..." [so God is partly on earth]

Jeremiah 23:20 - "'...Do I not fill heaven and earth?' declares the Lord."

1 Kg.8:12, 2 Chr.6:1 - "The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness."

Ps.18:11 - "He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies."

Ps.97:2 - "Clouds and darkness are round about him."

Bree

I agree. I will tentatively movd it to "Existance of God" although I'm not sure if it's true home lies there.