Talulah

I would like to start a discussion on spanking. I will say up front that I do not agree with it but am interested in seeing other's comments and opinions. Don't think I will jump on anyone for their opinions. I am well aware that some people feel strongly pro about this subject as I feel strongly con.

<a href="http://www.unh.edu/frl/cp27.htm" target="_blank">SOCIAL CHANGE AND TRENDS IN APPROVAL OF CORPORAL PUNISHMENT BY PARENTS FROM 1968 TO 1994</a>

This is an article for your consideration. I will warn that it is long.


1.) Do you believe in spanking under any circumstances?

If so...please tell at what age[s] it is in your opinions appropiate to use corporal punishment on a child.

under 1 Yes/No
1-3 Yes/No
4-6 Yes/No
7-9 Yes/No
10-12 Yes/No
13-15 Yes/No
Older than 15 under any circumstance?


2.) If you don't agree with corporal punishment, do you think those who use it should be punished?

3.) If you don't agree with spanking, do you still see some reasonable situation where it might be called for, or useful?

Doubting Didymus

Never having been a parent, I can not comment on what I would, or will do. I do have a few questions, though.

Before a child learns speech, how do you communicate a 'don't do that' signal when they are doing something dangerous? I can say that I would never use pain to punish a child, but I see parents sitting with their children that are clearly either pre-language or nowhere near able to understand adult scentences, just talking to them about why they shouldn't have been threatening to eat the poisonous cane toad. What good is that?

fcuk

i personally do not believe in corporal punishment, in the sense that if a child has done X, then he gets Y punishment (5 strokes with a paddle). however, i have had to swiftly slap a child's hand away from a shiny breakable thingamajig in a store or hit the finger about to be inserted in a light socket. i personally don't have a problem with this kind of 'discipline' as it is immediately much more effective than just saying 'no' to the child.

Amie

No.

No, I do not see where it can be useful in any situation. I don't think the best way to settle a dispute is with force. I think that spanking can take away a child's chance of learning less hurtful ways of dealing with some situations. I personally do not think it is effective and if a child does not really learn right from wrong from it, but what they get spanked for and what they don't get spanked for, how is this going to teach them self discipline?
I don't think parents who spank are bad people, since I have many friends who spank their children however I do not agree with it whatsoever since it represents the abuse of power by a large strong person against a small and comparatively weak one.
I don't think it is ever OK to hit another human being unless it is in defense...
JMO...

Amie~

Doubting Didymus

Amie. I agree with you mostly, but as I asked previously, how do you communicate a 'stop that' signal to a child that has not learned to speak?

Amie

Hi DD,
good question and I think we will all agree that children need limits. I know that children learn about the world by experimenting, testing, and observing and they need to hear the word "no" repeatedly if they are needing to stop whatever it is they are doing. Body language, tones and expressions tell much...I think that children can understand more than we think even before they can speak but sometimes things need to be demonstrated before they can be understood such as telling a small toddler to pick up their toys, they might give you a blank stare, but if you show them and repeat "we are picking up your toys", it is then that they can comprehend...it is not until later on though that they can understand that actions have consequences to behaviors...

Doubting Didymus

I was particularly thinking of potentially dangerous actions that demand an immediate response. How can you deliver that vital 'no' message, if they do not know the word? Surely you don't expect such a young child to pick up your meaning from body language? So what do you do?

Amie

I think that children as tender of an age where they have not yet begun to speak, know the word "no". I recall a time where my 9 month old crawled over to the electrical outlets that were child proofed and she was trying to take the plastic pieces out. I saw her and said "No!" very firmly she crawled away crying and I told her it was dangerous. Not that she would know what the hell I was talking about, but I felt that if I was consistent by telling her "dangerous" she would eventually associate that word with something she should stay away from. And she did. As a parent I really did not know what the hell I was doing, I was winging it, relying on instincts, sibling advice since I have 25 nieces and nephews and since my first degree was in psychology, I was constantly leafing through my text books from college...

Arrowman

I've been in this sort of discussion before, and it can get a bit tangled (e.g. the discussion between Amie and DD above).

I'd like to suggest something before we go too much further.

Definition of spanking for the purpose of this discussion: The premeditated and deliberate infliction of pain by hitting a child on the legs, buttocks, or hand, with an open hand, usually repeatedly, for the purpose of punishment / discipline.

Definition of smacking for the purpose of this discussion: The infliction of a single sharp blow, usually to the buttocks or hand, for the purpose of quickly diverting the child from unwanted behaviour, or to gain their attention urgently. (DD's "vital 'no' message")

In that context, my answers to Talulah's questions:

1. Spank - Never.
Smack - Very rarely, between the ages of about 2-5. For older children - never.

2. I think any person who inflicts physical injury on another, by whatever means, should be punished. I do not include mild spanking in this; although I am opposed to it on a personal level I am not convinced it is a matter for state intervention. But severe spanking resulting in injury (cuts, bruises) or frequent spanking over and extended period - yes. (yes, I know, define "repeated" and "extended" etc - just a general statement of principle. I just don't think any law should start drawing the line at any spanking whatsoever.)

3. Smacking - Yes (but I already answered "yes" to 1.)
Spanking - No. I cannot imagine a situation where spanking would be called for, or more useful or effective than alternative means.

[ November 26, 2002: Message edited by: Arrowman ]</p>

Amie

Hi Arrowman
I agree with your definitions, its just that they are both forms of hitting or striking, so to me they are pretty much the same. I understand that although the reasons behind them are separate issues, the action of either smacking or spanking is similar. I can't seem to find any continuity of how either can be beneficial. Arrowman can you help me to understand, because I am sincere when I say I want to hear your thoughts and I am not at all intending to be antagonistic. Are there other alternatives that have worked for you before smacking?

Much love
Amie~