HelenM

Hi Tom

So...the only God you could believe in is one who made "direct contact" with you?

Would you define 'direct contact'?

Have you ever asked God to make direct contact with you, by attempting to make direct contact with Him?

When I prayed to God almost 18 years ago, saying "If you're there come into my life" I was convinced that God responded (beginning right then) and that's about as direct as it gets as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway I'm not sure that a God who would never communicate with you through other people or circumstances or books...is much of a God, really. Although I understand why you would want direct contact. I mean, who wouldn't...but what is direct contact, anyway?

Easy be, if you want to know whether God exists, how will experimenting with a oujia board help with that? Isn't that more of an experiment into whether anything non-material exists?

Aquila ka Hecate re: harmful spirits belonging to humans...*sigh* I understand what you are saying...

love
Helen

Tercel

I think we all ultimately put our own ideas and spin on God. But I think we can sort the wheat from the chaff in this regard by taking the points of agreement among many different people, and having some sort of clearer and more authoratitive revelation - which for me is the Bible.

tommyc

When you prayed 18 years ago and asked if God was there, did you have any reason for looking for God? did you NEED to find God, for emotional wellbeing, or because you were going through personal difficulties at the time? (obviously that's a very personal question, so I guess you may not answer it)

Have I ever attempted to make contact with God? Well I can now, I've just said "Are you there God?" in my head. I felt nothing. I am not biased towards feeling that God does not exist, and I do honestly want him to acknowledge me, if he is there. I feel though, that if I set out to discover him, and put in any more effort than merely asking him, then I would be influencing myself to believe, and perhaps eventually, I would start to "feel" something that my own mind had created.

Tercel

One might be inclined to note that if God gave you a brain and some eyes and the ability to read, then he just might actually expect you to use those abilities to learn about him.

But is it not possible that God wants to use those words to speak to you?

You say you want God to "help me" to believe in him, yet at the same time you say you don't want to do anything pro-active. If you're not doing anything, how is it "help"?

How do you know anyone's not just deluded? How do you know you're not simply in the Matrix and deluded into thinking this world exists?
If you're after absolute and utter surity, then I'd say your chasing the wind.

What consitutes "direct contact"? Through your senses? Into your head? But can't your senses be decieved? Might not you hear or see something that's not really there? Alternatively, might not any religious experience in your head be "manufactured"? Or a psychological effect?

Also, I must wonder: are is this a fair level of evidence you are demanding? How much evidence do you demand for other truth claims? Do you find it necessary to have "direct contact" with other people before believing they exist?

Just curious,
Tercel

Easy Be

HelenSL,
Precisely, but thats the point. If I found irrevocable proof of the supernatural, I would be forced to succomb to theist views. It's like a theist who found out that God doesn't exist. They would have to throw out all their beliefs and start from scratch as an atheist. Now the situation may be a little different but I there is a way I can equate ouija board spirits with belief in the Christian God.
As a catholic I learned a great deal about the spirits of ouija boards. If how they act is in relation to what I've learned from catholic priests, I'll admit that catholic priests know a great deal more than I do about the supernatural and more importantly God.

HelenM

Hi Easy Be

I didn't know Catholics taught about that!

Ok, I think I see what you're saying - that if the spirits of ouija boards behave as you were taught by Catholics then that gives you more reason to believe the other things they told you - for example, about God.

Did I understand you right?

love
Helen

Epitome

tomcooper:
"Can I discover faith in [the xian] God without any previous belief whatsoever?"


If you have no belief whatsoever, why start with Christianity?

Perhaps you should ask yourself what in particular about Jesus would make you want to start with Him. If you can answer that question, you may find you already have a mustard seed of faith... and that's all you really need.




Epitome

DarkBronzePlant

Tercel,

From the post above, it seems that you're starting to understand the atheist point of view.

WJ

Tom!

Stop and think for a moment if the concept of God's existence didn't exist in your mind. What follows? What are your thoughts as contained in your stream of consciousness? Why do we think the way we think? why do you have feeling about your Self? Ever meditate?

Somewhat rhetorical I know, but perhaps what follows is a little inductive reasoning. Do spirits and consciousness have anything in common? Why yes they do. Are we spirutual creatures (living a physical life)whereby our essences (consciousness) consists of a form of electric impulses? Or does this phenomenon of the [why's of] conscious existence go beyond physical impulses? Inductively, it's all certainly possible. Are you familiar with the mind-body phenomenon?

Regardless of the answers, what proof is required to make the leap or connection? Only you, can answer that one.

Anyway, since you mentioned spirits, I thought I would share those thoughts. I think you are on the right track though, whatever you decide.

Walrus

free12thinker

How are you? I have one simple question. Why would you worship God if you found him to exist?
Would you have no questions for him like:
What is your purpose?
Are you omnipotent?
Is everything planned out?
Explain free will?

I would have a host of questions for him, but I could in no way worship him. Why would I? Just for bringing him into this world? We didn't ask to be brought here. We get our posessions on our own. We suffer heartache and joy on the same clock (our own). What would be one good reason to worship God.

Just a question.