tommyc

Hi everyone, this is my first thread, I've done my best to read the II library, though I do have a commitment to spend at least a few hours of my working day doing my job.

I know this topic has been covered but I'd like to concentrate on a particular aspect of it:

"Can I discover faith in [the xian] God without any previous belief whatsoever?"

To explain: I have no current belief in God, as I have seen no evidence for one and I lead a happy life with no need for the comfort of a higher being. However, unlike some atheists on this board, I believe I would worship and love God if I discovered him (sorry I don't do the capital letter thing). I would like to think there is a heaven-like afterlife (for everyone, good or bad) where I could meet my dead friends and family and live a life of eternal pleasure, but I have no evidence for it.

How do I go about discovering God with no belief currently whatsoever?

any thoughts welcome, and if this has been done, please excuse me.

cheers

TOm

(edited for spelling mistake in thread title, great start! d'oh!)

[ May 08, 2002: Message edited by: tomcooper ]</p>

Easy Be

Ah. I am in the same situation!
I'm not sure what you could do but I will tell you what I plan on doing. This may seem childish and well it probably is, but I think it will be exciting. A couple friends and I are going to a remote cemetary and play the ouija board under a full moon all night. One friend claims she has supernatural powers and has talked to spirits and such. I think it will be exciting.

Easy Be

Sorry about the poor grammar in the previous message. I posted it by accident without fixing the grammar. It also doesn’t help that I’m a very poor writer.

Anyway I’m going to go supernatural hunting this summer. Although I think it’s quite unlikely I’ll discover anything it’ll be interesting.

Tercel

Easy Be,
Be careful. I don't expect you to find out anything in your searches, save that many people who think they have contact with some sort of spirit are simply tricking themselves. But if you do find anything, then please remember that many people (me included) believe that not all spirits are benevolent. Please don't do anything or get involved in anything you may regret later.

Tercel

Hi Tom,
For me the single most compelling reason for my specific belief in the Christian God has been accounts of miracles I have heard and read. (I have actually just started writing up a (long) post on the subject but at the rate I'm going it probably won't be finished for two weeks.)

So, my suggestion is you chat to Christians about any miracle experiences they've had or think they've had. (Pentecostals are usually the more talkative ones about these sorts of things) Go chat to a pastor(s) and see if they have anything to say themselves or see if they can point you to someone in their congregation who you can go and talk to.
Also, read books: Heaps of Christians have written books about their lives and experiences and these accounts are often fascinating to read.

Don't forget to think critically during all of this! Always ask yourself whether you think the person might be lying. Might the person have been insane, or otherwise mentally unstable at the time? Is the person in a good position to know for fact what they are telling you? Do they call "miracle" that which might better be explained as coincidence? Might they be exaggerating or engaging in selective fact-choosing?

For me, it is the sheer volume of accounts I have heard and read which have passed any and every critical test I have set for them with flying colours that I find convincing.

Easy Be

Tercel,

Thanks for the kind warning. I feel i'm fairly educated in the area of evil spirits. I have been taught that most spirits associated with the ouija board are evil. While I don't personally believe in such spirits I do think going out and exploring in such fields of the supernatural is healthy for the mind.

tommyc

Tercel,

Thanks for the input. I have certainly read many accounts of miracles and experiences with religion, but I don't think I can start to think they were caused by God, unless I have a twinkling of belief within me already, which can grow by hearing of these accounts.

I suppose I couldn't say I have completely ruled out the possibility of a God, I just have this overwhelming feeling its all a big con.

Also I don't know if I wish to subject myself to listening to preachers telling me what I should believe. I am not saying in any way that Christianity is some sort of evil cult (many don't share that view I know!), but the same methods of religious persuasion are used, and I believe anybody could be made to believe it if given enough exposure.

Thanks anyway Tercel, I'd just like to know if its possible to "find" God on my own, with no prior belief, conversations with priests or religious literature.

Maybe its impossible.

Tercel

I can understand that.

I'm inclined to think that feeling's not entirely false or ungrounded. Whichever way you look at the issue of God, organised religion hasn't always cracked up to be what it's supposed to.

Fair enough. Although, I think you could solve this problem with a more liberal-style church.

Hmmm, this kind of makes me wonder exactly what you're thinking of when you say "Christianity"... Fundamentalist televangelists by any chance?

Assuming there is a God, what would you expect to "find" on your own? It's been my experience that those who find "God" on their own, find a God who's made in their own image, so to speak. They find what they want to find because they make it themselves.
For me, it is the thoughts of others that is challenging. I am not, by nature, greatly interested in what I happen to want to be true, but rather in what is actually true, in the objective truth. And to me objectivity means understand the opinions and experiences of others, debating points of truth etc. This is, perhaps the main reason I spend so much time posting to these message boards. Despite the generally constant barrage of insults from the less agreeable atheists, I still enjoy it because of the challenge it provides in fully understanding my beliefs.

Tercel

Aquila ka Hecate

HI Tercel,
I get the strong impression that that is all we, the human race, ever do.
Is not perhaps the god of many people's understanding and reference the god we have made as a group?
I know there are many gods, and is this not because there are many groups of people seeking, and finding, the deity of their own (collective) making?

Hi Tom Cooper,
Welcome, good thoughts.

Hi Easy Be,
I've found the only harmful spirits to belong, ultimately, to the human.
Godless Blessings

tommyc

I assumed that if I seek God, then he would let me know he was there. I'm sure he would not expect me to read many books. The bible is just text, and no words on their own are going to make me believe in God, unless they have some clever psychological tricks hidden within them. I am asking for God, if he exists, to help me believe in him, but I feel that if I do anything pro-active, such as pray, or talk to religious minded people, then that would be an influence from a source other than God himself. If I talk to priests or religious people, then how do I know they are not just deluded?

The only way I will believe or even start to believe is by direct contact from God. By using any other method I would be biased in favour of God's existance.

cheers
Tom