Illithid

I really want to believe that you are joking here, but I suspect you are not.

Firstly, you imply here that you recognise a deliberate attempt (you used the word 'tactic') on the part of atheists to use subversive and dishonest tactics to convert people to atheism.

I: Well, partly a joke. I think that many metaphysical naturalists (atheists) deliberately downplay this stance in order to better acheive the more limited objective of winning acceptance for methodological naturalism (evolution). If you're trying to convice people at a school board meeting to include evolution in the biology curriculum, and you go in as an avowed atheist, you're gonna lose.


Secondly, you seem to suggest that the best means available to atheists of converting people to atheism (and therefore metaphysical naturalism)is to introduce them to the theory of evolution.

To begin with, this confirms any idea that metaphysical naturalism and methodological naturalism are in some way synomonous. You seem confident that an acceptance of one, plus time, will lead to the other.

I: I do think this likely. Or I hope it is. Faith is a stubborn meme!


Also, the second point leads to a disturbing realization that the purpose of promoting evolutionary theory is not merely to promote the impartial findings of the material sciences but is undergirded by a desire to convert.

I: More like a desire to increase acceptance of evolution by downplaying the logical consequenses of this acceptance. I don't convert people. But some people, learning more about the way the universe works, convert themselves.


All I can say is... I'm glad you said it and not me!!

I wonder if the atheists on these boards will leap on you with the same measure of agression that they would do had a theist made the same comment? I must confess that I shall be watching with baited breath!

Once again, I'm hoping you'll turn round and admit that you have indulged in some form of irony, playing to the unfounded assertions of creationists that atheists are engaging in the type of plot suggested by your good self!


I: The concept of atheism, if linked to evolution, simply causes many people's brains to turn off. You might as well stop talking right there, because they aren't listening any more. To divorce these two concepts allows some people to tolerate discussion of evolution without pushing all the emotional buttons that atheism does. It gets past their mental blocks, in some cases. This might be regarded as dishonest. It would be if I did it, because I think the two ideas cannot be rationally separated. But heck, you can't take a baby's bottle away and start right off with the solid food. You have to wean it.

E_muse

Thanks for the reply

I can certainly see the difference in forwarding ideas by getting people to think.. something that religion so often fails to do.

abe smith

Dear E_muse, it's CATS who've eaten sardines who watch mice-holes w/ "baited breath". Apart from them the idiom is "bated (sic) breath", that is, Held or not-emitted, waiting... No problem w/ all this; but our lengwish is a whoh lotta fun. Abe

Oolon Colluphid

Not sardines. Presumably it is those cats that have eaten cheese...

Correct. The term is related to a-bate.

As Steve Pinker relates:
Time flies like an arrow.
Fruit flies like a banana.

DT

pz

Pinker? Don't you mean Marx? At least one of those two is a competent comedian.

Oolon Colluphid

Could be, could be... like I said, Pinker relates it...

DT

gymmarty

I just have to say, I didn't expect that I'd be laughing out loud reading an internet forum on evolution!!!
Amos' comments have to be one of the most ignorant, sloppy, confused and befuddled statements I've ever read.
So much so that I vote them as being the funniest on this forum.
Come Amos! Can you plumb the depths of misguidance any further????