Freethought & Rationalism Archive

tdekeyser · 12-12-2002, 12:02 PM

This is a rant, but move it if you must......

I just saw the Faith-based initiutive speech today.

You should have heard the speech. I was at home and got to see the entire thing...disgusting...

This is the entire thing.....

He wants for shelters and counseling centers that are RELIGIOUS to get the same $$ (our tax money) that the other centers get. I can agree with that.....

BUT!!!!!!

What is going to happen when a regular guy goes to this clinic to get some professional counseling? Let's say the guy is a drug user......

They are not going to give that guy "professional counseling" by a licensed social counselor with a degree, that guy is going to get "prostalizing" and shown the bible, not counseling that will work.

Bush said, "These places will speak the Word of God and that is what America needs."

HE SIGNED AN EXECUTIVE ORDER TO MAKE IT GO THROUGH!!!!!!!

ShabbyChick · 12-12-2002, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tdekeyser:
Bush said, "These places will speak the Word of God and that is what America needs."

HE SIGNED AN EXECUTIVE ORDER TO MAKE IT GO THROUGH!!!!!!!

Holy crap! He actually used those words? I think it is time for Mortalwombat to start looking for a job in Canada, where we can put up our "holiday tree" in peace.

galiel · 12-12-2002, 12:16 PM

"BUSH needs to be IMPEACHED!!!!"

No, people need to start voting for and being active for the Democratic (i.e., only viable) opposition.

How many of the people who are pissing and moaning right now either didn't vote at all, or voted for some meaningless third party in our winner-take-all electoral system?

[Tiresome, overworked complaint about site management deleted. Please keep your complaints in the complaint forum.] Don't blame Bush for using the electoral mandate the voting public gave him. That is what a democratic republic is all about.

[ December 12, 2002: Message edited by: phlebas ]

ShabbyChick · 12-12-2002, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by galiel:

How many of the people who are pissing and moaning right now either didn't vote at all, or voted for some meaningless third party in our winner-take-all electoral system?

This pissing moaner has every right to moan and piss all she wants. However, voting doesn't always help eliminate the losers. I voted for a dead man and the dead man won, but look what happened to the loser! So do I have your permission to piss and moan about Ashcroft, too?

Pitshade · 12-12-2002, 12:38 PM

Off to Church/State...

azidhak · 12-12-2002, 01:31 PM

As an European I can tell you I've been scared shitless by that guy you call president ever since he got elected. September 11th I was watching the attacks and my first thought was "Oh my Dog all those people!" My next thought was "What the Hell is Bush going to do now?" "Please don't say that the planes were labeled WMD's!!"

Anyway I must admire the man for making foreign politics easy: US vs Them. Anyway that was my 2 denarii.
Haakon

[ December 12, 2002: Message edited by: azidhak ]

Buffman · 12-12-2002, 06:25 PM

(Also a warm-up rant.)

The administration propagandists were out in force today. They are claiming that the faith based organizations have proved to be far more effective and successful than any other, especially the government, in assisting those seeking/needing specialized help. (i.e.: Food/counseling/drug-alcohol addiction support/whatever.) How these self-serving religionist ad men and women have arrived at that unsupported conclusion escapes me.

All I see is taxpayer monies being used to advance the religious dogmas of those Denominations/Sects/Cults (D/S/C) selected by the U.S. Government to receive funding.

The propagandists keep parroting Bush's line that the money will not be used, in any way, to advance the material well being or dogmas of the religious group receiving these funds...or used to proselytize. The money can only be used to assist the needy. Whoa! Wait a minute. There is something I don't understand here.

These faith organizations are currently using their own funds to do all these good deeds. If they are now to receive taxpayer funds to do them, what do they do with the funds that they no longer require for this activity?

The propagandists would probably claim that these faith groups will now be able to help more people. (Expand their operation.) OK! That would mean that the faith groups would continue to expend exactly as much as they are already spending and only be augmented by federal funds. So what is there in the Presidential Resolution that establishes just how much each potential federal funds recipient is currently spending in order to be sure that those funds aren't suddenly diverted to advancing the material well being and dogma of the D/S/C? (i.e.: Buying more Bibles, creating more religious outreach facilities (owned by the denomination), buying infrastructure equipment (owned by the denomination) to use in the expansion...of the religious D/S/C?---And this Resolution circumvents the Discrimination in Employment laws.

No matter how I look at it, my (our) taxpayer money is now available to support those religions selected by the Government to receive them. Exactly who is deciding which Faith Based Organizations are more worthy of my (our) money than others?

How long will it take before those Faith Based programs that do not receive federal founding recognize just how this unconstitutional church-state collusion is screwing them? I already know how its screwing me.

ybnormal · 12-12-2002, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Buffman:
federal founding

Your mind is possibly lingering on another thread?

ybnormal · 12-12-2002, 07:06 PM

The administration propagandists were out in force today.

Indeed! But why today? The President and First Lady no less, were on live TV for what seemed like a couple of hours. We had the Prez crapping all over Lott to a "racially mixed" audience, while the First Lady was carefully positioned between a little Black boy "Hero" and the Blackest little Black girl on the planet, whom the FL had "personally selected to join her" from among all the children at the hospital.

I would be interested to know when both these photo ops were scheduled. If they were in any way coincidental, Rove had to be high-fiving folks for their sheer luck. Point being, don't forget that this Faith-Based Initiatives sham has as much to do with getting Blacks (and Hispanics) into the Repub party as it has to do with anything else.

Repub talking heads are all over my TV tonight saying that Lott has set their strategy back for years to come. Yes, today was the launch of the Faith Based thingy, but IMO, it was more the launch of GOP Damage Control. BTW, Lott ain't the "what if" catastrophe I was talking about before that could stop Bush in 2004, but it's a nice mess to watch him have to mop up. I love it!

galiel · 12-12-2002, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ybnormal:

I would be interested to know when both these photo ops were scheduled. If they were in any way coincidental, Rove had to be high-fiving folks for their sheer luck.

NOTHING Karl Rove does has anything to do with luck.

12-12-2002, 12:02 PM	#1
tdekeyser Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 341	BUSH needs to be IMPEACHED!!!! This is a rant, but move it if you must...... I just saw the Faith-based initiutive speech today. You should have heard the speech. I was at home and got to see the entire thing...disgusting... This is the entire thing..... He wants for shelters and counseling centers that are RELIGIOUS to get the same $$ (our tax money) that the other centers get. I can agree with that..... BUT!!!!!! What is going to happen when a regular guy goes to this clinic to get some professional counseling? Let's say the guy is a drug user...... They are not going to give that guy "professional counseling" by a licensed social counselor with a degree, that guy is going to get "prostalizing" and shown the bible, not counseling that will work. Bush said, "These places will speak the Word of God and that is what America needs." HE SIGNED AN EXECUTIVE ORDER TO MAKE IT GO THROUGH!!!!!!!

12-12-2002, 12:16 PM	#3
galiel Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Eastern Massachusetts Posts: 1,677	"BUSH needs to be IMPEACHED!!!!" No, people need to start voting for and being active for the Democratic (i.e., only viable) opposition. How many of the people who are pissing and moaning right now either didn't vote at all, or voted for some meaningless third party in our winner-take-all electoral system? [Tiresome, overworked complaint about site management deleted. Please keep your complaints in the complaint forum.] Don't blame Bush for using the electoral mandate the voting public gave him. That is what a democratic republic is all about. [ December 12, 2002: Message edited by: phlebas ]</p>

12-12-2002, 01:31 PM	#6
azidhak Banned Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 818	As an European I can tell you I've been scared shitless by that guy you call president ever since he got elected. September 11th I was watching the attacks and my first thought was "Oh my Dog all those people!" My next thought was "What the Hell is Bush going to do now?" "Please don't say that the planes were labeled WMD's!!" Anyway I must admire the man for making foreign politics easy: US vs Them. Anyway that was my 2 denarii. Haakon [ December 12, 2002: Message edited by: azidhak ]</p>

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12-12-2002, 12:38 PM	#5
Pitshade Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Sugar Grove,NC Posts: 4,316	Off to Church/State...

12-12-2002, 06:25 PM	#7
Buffman Beloved Deceased Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: central Florida Posts: 3,546	(Also a warm-up rant.) The administration propagandists were out in force today. They are claiming that the faith based organizations have proved to be far more effective and successful than any other, especially the government, in assisting those seeking/needing specialized help. (i.e.: Food/counseling/drug-alcohol addiction support/whatever.) How these self-serving religionist ad men and women have arrived at that unsupported conclusion escapes me. All I see is taxpayer monies being used to advance the religious dogmas of those Denominations/Sects/Cults (D/S/C) selected by the U.S. Government to receive funding. The propagandists keep parroting Bush's line that the money will not be used, in any way, to advance the material well being or dogmas of the religious group receiving these funds...or used to proselytize. The money can only be used to assist the needy. Whoa! Wait a minute. There is something I don't understand here. These faith organizations are currently using their own funds to do all these good deeds. If they are now to receive taxpayer funds to do them, what do they do with the funds that they no longer require for this activity? The propagandists would probably claim that these faith groups will now be able to help more people. (Expand their operation.) OK! That would mean that the faith groups would continue to expend exactly as much as they are already spending and only be augmented by federal funds. So what is there in the Presidential Resolution that establishes just how much each potential federal funds recipient is currently spending in order to be sure that those funds aren't suddenly diverted to advancing the material well being and dogma of the D/S/C? (i.e.: Buying more Bibles, creating more religious outreach facilities (owned by the denomination), buying infrastructure equipment (owned by the denomination) to use in the expansion...of the religious D/S/C?---And this Resolution circumvents the Discrimination in Employment laws. No matter how I look at it, my (our) taxpayer money is now available to support those religions selected by the Government to receive them. Exactly who is deciding which Faith Based Organizations are more worthy of my (our) money than others? How long will it take before those Faith Based programs that do not receive federal founding recognize just how this unconstitutional church-state collusion is screwing them? I already know how its screwing me.

12-12-2002, 07:06 PM	#9
ybnormal Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 430	The administration propagandists were out in force today. Indeed! But why today? The President and First Lady no less, were on live TV for what seemed like a couple of hours. We had the Prez crapping all over Lott to a "racially mixed" audience, while the First Lady was carefully positioned between a little Black boy "Hero" and the Blackest little Black girl on the planet, whom the FL had "personally selected to join her" from among all the children at the hospital. I would be interested to know when both these photo ops were scheduled. If they were in any way coincidental, Rove had to be high-fiving folks for their sheer luck. Point being, don't forget that this Faith-Based Initiatives sham has as much to do with getting Blacks (and Hispanics) into the Repub party as it has to do with anything else. Repub talking heads are all over my TV tonight saying that Lott has set their strategy back for years to come. Yes, today was the launch of the Faith Based thingy, but IMO, it was more the launch of GOP Damage Control. BTW, Lott ain't the "what if" catastrophe I was talking about before that could stop Bush in 2004, but it's a nice mess to watch him have to mop up. I love it!

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