Violent Messiah

Subjective reality is a trap........

If we seek refuge upon it, then there can be no wrong opinion and there is no point contesting each other's ideologies then.

bgponder

"Subjective reality is a trap........

If we seek refuge upon it, then there can be no wrong opinion and there is no point contesting each other's ideologies then"

Yet truly all we have is subjectivity. We do seek refuge upon it, constantly. "Wrong" is what is not to our advantage. We seek advantage, and find it in the collective, or not.

All we argue is to our advantage. That is the point.

Albert Cipriani

Bounder says:
WRONG!

My concept of doing what's right can be summed up as follows:

Morality is
having the advantage
but not taking it.

But we are straying from xianseeker's point:
If I understand you correctly, (am not sure what you mean by equivocal in this context) you are confusing prediction with knowledge. For example, I can know what the weather is without being a weatherman. (appologies to Bob Dylan)

Likewise, I can know that God exists but not be able to predict whether or not He's sending me to hell. Indeed, this inability to predict our salvation or damnation is a Catholic dogma that contradicts most Christian notions and all of the "Born Again" folks. -- Sincerely, Albert Cipriani

bgponder

Albert says:

"WRONG!

My concept of doing what's right can be summed up as follows:

Morality is
having the advantage
but not taking it."

Prime illustration of my point. Your morality conveys your advantage. Heaven, I presume, or the seeking of it, which you must hope grants you the possibility of eternal life, regardless of whether you can absolutely know the outcome re Catholic dogma.

What else ya got?

Sincerely, BarryG

Albert Cipriani

BarryG says:
WRONG AGAIN!

One more strike and we'll take away your Get-Out-Of-Hell-Free Card.

Keep it simple. All's I'm saying is that whatever advantage I subjectively perceive myself to have, and do not take, is an exercise of my morality.

For example, I could be a mugger with a knife at your throat. I'd have the advantage. But if I did not take advantage of my advantage, i.e., did not slit your throat, I'd have acted morally. What I'm proposing is a totally subjective morality. It should be right down your alley (which intersects with the Road to Perdition which is a great film, by the way ). -- Cheers, Albert Cipriani

Darth Dane

Xian: This was the post I had written, but I had some reasons not post it....at least right away.
'

"Well, I don't know if this is true or not. You say that you are 100% sure that you exist."

No I didn't, how can I?

"Maybe, maybe not. But no matter what you say, your knowledge of the universe is limited by your experience of the universe. You can never know the universe's existence in and of itself. All you can know is you empirical experience of the universe. The true ontology of the universe outside of yourself is unknown to you."

I am not talking about WHAT the universe is or how it functions with its laws and whatnot.
I am talking about the fact that I can see with my eyes, and my eyes tell me this keyboard is real, and thus my eyes tell me when staring in the night that there is something out there. Scientists say it is the universe.

The universe exists, and I also exists. We share a common denominator; being the fact we both are real/existing.
If I don't know if I am real, how can I talk about God? Is God real? I simply don't know, so I believe in the things that makes sense to me.

"...So the only proper way to speak of God is negatively. The "via negativa" the way of the negative."

Yes this I know as being the Vedantic method of reaching the highest or supreme conciousness. Is it a path to actually KNOW? I don't know, some have said that they indeed found what they had been searching for. What are you searching for?

"Seek and you shall find"

If you want it to be there, it WILL be there.

"Ask and you shall receive"




I Am





DD - I Am Spliff

bgponder

Bertie says:

"For example, I could be a mugger with a knife at your throat. I'd have the advantage. But if I did not take advantage of my advantage, i.e., did not slit your throat, I'd have acted morally."

And the "moral" action is for a reason in the actor, that again (Jeezus!) conveys an advantage. "I will not kill this guy because I am tired of killing and robbing and I want to do something different." "I will not kill and rob this guy because I have had a thing in my mind that says one day this shit will catch up with me." "I will not try to pull the knife across his throat because I have just seen that he actually has a .357 Magnum cocked and pointed at my scrotum."

I have indeed kept it simple. 1.) Advantage 2.) Action

3.) Is what we are arguing.

Cheers, BarryG

hinduwoman

I read a StarTrek novel where in another dimension Enterprise finds God of that universe. But it was before creation and so the God-entity did not know that anything beside itself exists or can exist --- it did not even think at all. It was only when due to the interactions with the crew, it created the rest of the universe, that it became a thinking, conscious creature.
It does raise an important point: how before creation could God know he was God?

Albert Cipriani

Dear Hinduwoman,
You ask:
This is an excellent metaphysical question that leads to the concept of the Trinity.

If there truly was but One God, He could not know it. Likewise, if there was but one color, we could not know, name, nor recognize it. As Jobar has pointed out in this forum, we see by contrast, require a background to detect a figure, need space to contain an object, require silence between the notes of our music.

God is like that, too. -- Sincerely, Albert the Traditional Catholic
groups.yahoo.com/group/ReligiousPhilosophy/

Darth Dane

Listen to ALbert!

Anyone know Meister Eckhardt?

He talks about two aspects of God. The active as we see it, and that which is before colors arose, before contrasts arose. God was.

God Is

I am

I am that which IS

I exist

What happens if I don't speak or move or think?
What if I don't see contrast?
Am I then that which God is?




DD - I Am Spliff