Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Hedshaker · 08-13-2003, 02:11 AM

666 Number of the beast.

Quote:

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The above verse seems to make a statement with no explaination or significance. Why those three numbers as opposed to any other three numbers?

Why not 777? Or simply 7 as in 7 deadly sins or something...?

bya

Doctor X · 08-13-2003, 02:12 AM

There is actually a good thread on it over on BC&H.

Mystery of 666

--J.D.

Stephen T-B · 08-13-2003, 04:43 AM

The BBC Radio 4 programme I heard was also interesting in so far as the assembled scholars / academics agreed that main-stream Christians were traditionally sceptical about Revelations.
The people who tended to take it up with the greatest enthusiasm were those on the fringes, the radicals and those not accepted by the Establishment. What attracted them to it was the stuff abouit Armageddon and the Rapture, when the folk like them would get their just reward, and those who oppressed them would get theirs.

kaidi06 · 08-13-2003, 10:53 AM

It's all such a one-sided story... I sure wish that we could hear the Devil's side for a change.

Here's a question: If Satan indeed has free will, can he repent and bring himself back into god's grace? And if so, what does this do to god's plan?

trillian · 08-13-2003, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Because Satan (Lucifer) wasn't content worshipping God, He wanted the angels to worship Him. He wanted God's power and authority. Satan had pride and greed, the first sins ever to enter God's creation.

Why wasn't Lucifer content? (Perfect angels should be content!)

Why did God make him knowing he was prideful and greedy? Satan cannot "have" something not given by God, so his pride and greed clearly came from God.

How can God make imperfect angels? Did he mess up on this one?
Was God surprised that Lucifer fell?

trillian

Cross Examiner · 08-13-2003, 12:07 PM

kaidi06,

"It's all such a one-sided story... I sure wish that we could hear the Devil's side for a change"

I think Anton LaVey could tell you. I can't, in good conscience, offer up the Satanic bible as good reading though. Although, you will doubtlessly feed your mind whatever you want to feed it, as you always have. Which is your choice and your ultimate culpability (IMO). Choose wisely

trillian1,

"Why wasn't Lucifer content? (Perfect angels should be content!)"

Lucifer is not perfect, just a rather powerful/beautiful/prideful created being. The latter description is more a development ascribed to his will. See preceding posts.

Regarding,
BGic

BTW, anyone jazzed to see Mel Gibson's "The Passion"?

Mageth · 08-13-2003, 12:47 PM

Lucifer is not perfect

The allegedly perfect Omnimax God has a rather poor track record in creating beings, I must say.

Has he ever gotten one being right?

Doctor X · 08-13-2003, 12:52 PM

kaidi06:

Quote:

If Satan indeed has free will, can he repent and bring himself back into god's grace? And if so, what does this do to god's plan?

Well . . . in Job he has a very important "job"--he is the prosecutor. He comes to heaven and Big Daddy asks him "wazzzzup!!" Hardly any rancor there.

Quote:

Behold the Lord High Executioner
A personage of noble rank and title--
A dignified and potent officer,
Whose functions are particularly vital!
Defer, defer,
To the Lord High Executioner!

Or, if you are a Neil "Oh the Angst" Gaiman fan he quits his job and moves to Australia . . . much to the chagrin of angels, demons, and other anthropomorphic personifications.

For a very good discussion of the development of "Old Scratch" from his humble beginnings as a stn--a thing you trip over, stumbling block, obstacle--you may enjoy:

Forsyth, Neil. The Old Enemy: Satan and the Combat Myth. Princton University Press.

--J.D.

Biff the unclean · 08-13-2003, 10:40 PM

Gee Magus a few weeks ago you were insisting that the stars that fell to Earth in Revelation were asteroids.
Now you insist that they are Angels. Perhaps if we wait a few more weeks they'll become hamsters.
Stranger things have happened, didn't Isaiah just leap six hundred and more years in time and become part of Revelation?
In your version, if no one else's.
Didn't admitting that you intentionally ignored Isaiah14:4 (That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!) suddenly turn a human king into the devil and turn these verses into the biblical verses on Lucifer's (Satan's) rebellion?

And once again you claim to be following the bible, yet once again you change what the bible says into what you want it to say.
That's not faith, that's egotism.

lunachick · 08-14-2003, 12:41 AM

I have a lot of sympathy for the devil, myself. So much so, actually, that I had a fundie tell me that "Satin", I kid you not, "Satin" was working through me. He also rebuked me in the name of Jesus Christ, via bulletin board. I thought that was rather classic. I can't even afford to buy satin, let alone sell my soul to it!!

08-13-2003, 12:07 PM	#56
Cross Examiner Veteran Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 1,881	not happy being #2 kaidi06, "It's all such a one-sided story... I sure wish that we could hear the Devil's side for a change" I think Anton LaVey could tell you. I can't, in good conscience, offer up the Satanic bible as good reading though. Although, you will doubtlessly feed your mind whatever you want to feed it, as you always have. Which is your choice and your ultimate culpability (IMO). Choose wisely trillian1, "Why wasn't Lucifer content? (Perfect angels should be content!)" Lucifer is not perfect, just a rather powerful/beautiful/prideful created being. The latter description is more a development ascribed to his will. See preceding posts. Regarding, BGic BTW, anyone jazzed to see Mel Gibson's "The Passion"?

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08-13-2003, 02:12 AM	#52
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	There is actually a good thread on it over on BC&H. Mystery of 666 --J.D.

08-13-2003, 04:43 AM	#53
Stephen T-B Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 5,878	The BBC Radio 4 programme I heard was also interesting in so far as the assembled scholars / academics agreed that main-stream Christians were traditionally sceptical about Revelations. The people who tended to take it up with the greatest enthusiasm were those on the fringes, the radicals and those not accepted by the Establishment. What attracted them to it was the stuff abouit Armageddon and the Rapture, when the folk like them would get their just reward, and those who oppressed them would get theirs.

08-13-2003, 10:53 AM	#54
kaidi06 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 23	It's all such a one-sided story... I sure wish that we could hear the Devil's side for a change. Here's a question: If Satan indeed has free will, can he repent and bring himself back into god's grace? And if so, what does this do to god's plan?

08-13-2003, 12:47 PM	#57
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Lucifer is not perfect The allegedly perfect Omnimax God has a rather poor track record in creating beings, I must say. Has he ever gotten one being right?

08-13-2003, 10:40 PM	#59
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Gee Magus a few weeks ago you were insisting that the stars that fell to Earth in Revelation were asteroids. Now you insist that they are Angels. Perhaps if we wait a few more weeks they'll become hamsters. Stranger things have happened, didn't Isaiah just leap six hundred and more years in time and become part of Revelation? In your version, if no one else's. Didn't admitting that you intentionally ignored Isaiah14:4 (That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!) suddenly turn a human king into the devil and turn these verses into the biblical verses on Lucifer's (Satan's) rebellion? And once again you claim to be following the bible, yet once again you change what the bible says into what you want it to say. That's not faith, that's egotism.

08-14-2003, 12:41 AM	#60
lunachick Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: NZ Posts: 7,895	I have a lot of sympathy for the devil, myself. So much so, actually, that I had a fundie tell me that "Satin", I kid you not, "Satin" was working through me. He also rebuked me in the name of Jesus Christ, via bulletin board. I thought that was rather classic. I can't even afford to buy satin, let alone sell my soul to it!!

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