Baloo

I have yet to see a sound argument contructed for what I can only label as a gaping non-sequitor.

Assumption 1) An arbitrary person believes there exists a point his/her ancestral lineage whereby all ancestors before that point lack the phenomological characteristics necessary to be classified as human.


(Missing argument)

Conclusion: That person has lower (self esteem OR self worth OR dignity OR morality etc.) because of A1.


Can anyone fill in the argument here?

Undercurrent

A2) Said person bases his/her self-esteem and/or morality on the notion that A1 is false. That is, that s/he is "special" and unrelated to non-humans. For example, that a deity specifically made his/her species by fiat.

m.

Baloo

See, this is the part I don't get. Does this argument hinge on the mentality "My father is the King, thus a very dignified person. By birthright, I am 'better', more 'special', more 'dignified', etc." Does it hinge on the mentaility that dignity is strictly inherited (based not on who a person is, but based on the dignity of the predecessors of said person)? If so, please make this an explicitly stated premise to the (still incomplete) argument.

[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: Baloo ]</p>

Atheist121

Here's the form I see most often:

A2: If the person thinks his ancestors were monkeys* then he may think that he is one, too.

A3: If a person thinks he is a monkey, he will start to act like one.

*Note that this rests on the false assumption that evolutionists believe that they descended from monkeys. Although I imagine there are many people out there who accept evolution and who DO think we descended from monkeys. So much for the education system.

Albion

If people are fed the line that "nature red in tooth and claw" is anti-biblical and that humans are unique in being in the image of God, then some of them are simply not going to accept any relationship with the cruel reality of the antural world. I keep hearing how un-biblical survival of the fittest is (and so evolution couldn't have happened), and yet that very same struggle for survival is documented to be going on now in nature. I just don't understand how people can wall themselves off from it.

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ

P1) That would mean that we aren't direct creations of god! We can't be special then! Nevermind that we are pretty dman special, being one of the most sucessful speicies ever (next to cockroaches, we are prolly the best right now), and are pretty unique insofar as our cpabilities.

Basically, people are fucking morons.

Grumpy

This makes no sense coming from anyone who believes that all humans share a hereditary curse and are innately depraved.

Non-praying Mantis

Are you saying that none of our ancestors were monkies? I think that this is incorrect, or do you have better candidate for a transition between apes and prosimians?

Or are you saying that our previous ancestors are apes (including our human ancestors because humans are apes)?

NPM

[edited because of my stupid non-verbal brain, D'OH!]

[ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Non-praying Mantis ]</p>

Undercurrent

It is a very feudal mindset. But christianity is very fuedal itself, what with "the lord" and the "line of David" and all.

m.

RufusAtticus

Survival of the fittest is all over the bible, except it is more along the lines of "Survival of the most pious." Noah's flood is one big selection event. I don't understand such creationist arguments.

"Our God, who killed 99.99999999999999999...% of life on this planet because he didn't get it right the first time, doesn't like evolution because it is about death and not love."