Steven Carr

A simple question for anti Christ mythers.

Did the George Washington who chopped down the cherry tree exist?

Toto

arggh.

We have clear documentary evidence that an American Protestant preacher, Parson Mason Weems, invented the story of George Washington chopping down the cherry tree. A familiar case of a Christian creating a falsehood in the service of a presumably higher good.

So most of the anti-Jesus Myth faction will be happy to say that George Washington was real. The story was false. Telling a lie about you does not turn you into a fictional character. Unless you want to play word games.

I hope you don't think that you are solving the Jesus Mystery Puzzle with this analogy.

Steven Carr

So, may I take that as a yes , in your opinion, the George Washington who chopped down the cherry tree was indeed a real person?

Kosh

George Washington existed.

There is no such thing a George Washington who chopped down a cherry tree.

George Washington did, apparently, have quite an affinity for "cherries", but that's another story.

Vinnie

Am I detecting some sort of sexual pun there or am I just sick and perverted?

Vinnie

Kosh

Yes.

joedad

I don't see that as the point of Steven Carr's question, and no word games intended. The historical question is better asked, "Where lies the motivation for Parson Weems story?"

Obviously, the difference is between fictionalizing history and historicizing fiction. In the case of the cherry tree, obviously we are historicizing fiction. I don't think Steven Carr intends to fictionalize GW. Though the fictional story has a place in history, there is no history to be found in fictional stories. To go inside fictional stories and try to extract history is akin to playing with Tarot cards imho.

Having said that, if one is willing to treat fictional stories as containing morsels of history, I think the best take on Steven Carr's question would be to ask whether indeed there is a historical Parson Weems. And having said that, as all fiction requires a writer, fiction writers and their fiction reside in history as fact. The history of the gospels lie not in the stories but in what those stories communicate to us about that writer. There must exist this disconnect.

Which Shakespeare is "real," the Stratfordian or Oxfordian? Today, the Stratfordian Shakespeare sounds a bit too miraculous, though it had its time, and perhaps this accounts for its popularity. An Oxfordian better explains the larger historical picture in which Shakespeare appears, once again imho.

joe

RyanS2

The best example I could think of was in Gregory Vlastos book, (I hope that's the authors name) called "Socrates: Iconoclast and Moral philosopher". In it, he makes a comparison between what he calls early Socrates, (Plato before he had defined his own philosophy), Middle Socrates, (Plato when he had some of his ideas for it), and Late Socrates, (when he had believed his philosphy was at its full stage.) Those are three different Socrates, the first Socrates being against authoritarianism, and disdaining nobility. The "late" Socrates, by contrast, is partying with the nobles and in favor of authoritarianism. Obviously, two different men.

Did Late Socrates really exist?

Writer@Large

I think maybe you need to go back and check your reading comprehension, if that's what you got from Toto's post.

No, the George Washington who chopped down the cherry tree didn't exist; he was a fiction. That the George Washington who chopped down the cherry tree was based on a real life George Washington, and even passed off as a truth about that George Washington, does not make the George Washington who chopped down the cherry tree a real person.

--W@L

Liquidrage

Nope. But I fail to see the relationship to Jesus.

George Washington, the 1st President of the Untied States certainly existed. While it is true some acts attributed to Mr. Washington are not true there are many historical facts that are true.

Where as with Jesus there is nothing we know about him that is surely true. Did the resurection happen? What about the divine birth? The mass feedings? What parts of the stories are surely fact?

A lot of people like to claim that surely there must be a person that Jesus is based upon. And although likely it is not certain. Purely fictional stories could surely originate outside of the alleged place of origin and then later spread into the alleged place of origin.