malookiemaloo

To be honest, the 9/11 story is harder to comment on than Balaam's ass for the simple reason that I expect that other Christians died in the twin towers and I would expect many non Christians had similar miraculous escapes.

Nevertheless, a Christian is in a different position than a non Christian. A Christian trusts God no matter what and, in my view, is entitled to claim divine intervention at times. However, the best a non Christian can do is put it all down to luck, chance etc.

Difficult question, though.


m

Vinnie

A humorous account makes me in a jocular mood and a talking ass is pretty funny.

Actually, we do not have anything concrete to say about Balaam. Do you actually think we can say anything with reasonable accuracy about a "historical" Balaam? I don't. You might believe in the accuracy of the account but I wonder if any real historians do?

You really need to ask that?

Not if your a panentheist. Everyone does not subscribe to the interventionist God of supernatural theism. I can't imagine the idiocy of a deity who would step in, alter reality and make an ass talk but would let the Holocaust occur??? I guess making that axehead float was pretty important but stoping hurricane Mitch from killing 10,000 people wasn't??? He heals little Timmy of cancer but lets Hiroshima go boom?! The interventionist God of supernatural theism is not coherent.

I can show you a billion cases where God has not acted when we would all have expected him to. The background probability of the few miracles you believe in is extremely close to zero if it isn't already zero.

Vinnie

malookiemaloo

Not sure if it quite appropriate to go from Balaam's ass to hiroshima et al but anyway.

I know there are many difficult and puzzling aspects to life in this world where God is in control but seems as though He is not.

Is God under an obligation to give us all a nice happy life especially when we are in a state of rebellion against Him?

Don't forget all lifes hardships are only 'for a season'. What is 70 odd years against eternity?

As Isaiah said 'the former things will not be brought to mnd, neither will they be remembered.'

Have faith!!


m

lpetrich

malookiemaloo:
With all respect to those contributing to this thread, what is it about something out of the ordinary that causes liberal theologians and non-theists to start making jokes?

It wasn't the miracle, it was a rather horrid pun on the word "ass" -- donkey vs. rear end.

Whatever we say about Balaam, he was more spiritual than most people are today and he therefore 'expected the unexpected'.

And how was that supposed to be the case?

That is why he showed no surprise when his ass spoke.

Seems rather jaded to me; I once knew someone who sometimes seemed as if he'd drop dead from boredom.

And if God, who called the universe into being ex nihilo wanted to make an ass talk, what's the problem?

This would mean that we live in a totally unpredictable Universe.

Fair enough if you don't believe in a deity but if you do, then the background probability of a talking donkey, or an axehead floating, Red Sea opening, Jesus resurrection etc is very high.

As are the probabilities of all the miracles of religions that malookiemaloo rejects.

lpetrich

malookiemaloo:
Is God under an obligation to give us all a nice happy life especially when we are in a state of rebellion against Him?

What do you think that Heaven is?

And an entity who allows something to happen, then complains about it later, is being very childish and undignified.

Don't forget all lifes hardships are only 'for a season'. What is 70 odd years against eternity?

Then why act as if one is afraid of going there?

Vinnie

I have lots of faith in God but I recognize that bread is not going to pop into existence and satisfy the hunger of starving children around the world. If you think otherwise demonstrate why I am wrong.

A genuine miracle would be harder for me to explain than no miracles occuring and this is coming from a theist who has faith in God.

Am I under obligation to believe in talking asses, floating axeheads and men rising from the dead? I sure hope God does not expect that of me.

And starving children are not in a state of rebellion against God either. But maybe you subscribe to a version of original sin where Adamic guilt is imputated? I took the pleasure of laying that heinous doctrine to rest over here:

http://www.acfaith.com/originalsin.html

This is a red herring. I did not use evil in the world to argue against the existence or goodness of God. I said I do not believe in an interventionist God simply because God does not appear to intervene. Well, he didn't in the billion or so cases I could come up with. The problem is only intensified a thousand-fold when you tell me he made an axehead float but let millions of people die during the holocaust.

Vinnie

BioBeing

Why should a belief in a deity make the background probablility higher? I'd say a belief in a deity would make one more inclined to take a somewhat unusual situation and attribute it to a deity, but that wont change the actual probability. Ever since I first heard the story of Chicken Little I've been able to check the trees for squirrels before assuming something is supernatural. Can you provide any hard and fast evidence for any miracles that you have witnessed (fully explaining, of course, why the natural has been ruled out)?

fatherphil

actually the story around this incident is pretty deep and meaty. much more than this thread about it. perhaps you could repost it and use the word donkey to avoid the snickering if you are really interested in a "religious" discussion.

Mageth

actually the story around this incident is pretty deep and meaty.

You complain about others snickering while referring to a story revolving around an ass as "deep and meaty"?

Good one, fatherphil, whether intentional, Freudian, or unintentional.

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Sabine Grant

Ah... en Francais, you guys could not poke so much fun at the old term for " donkey". It is written as " ane". I know ... I know..."anus" " anal " etc... oh well!