rainbow walking

Yuk, yuk, yuk...and why is god obligated to do these things? I must have missed that assumption being supported. Pain and suffering might very well be man's problem. And if a god did intervene to do some of these nice things for people should he just poof away all pain and suffering forever? And what would man do? Live happily ever after? Doing what? Out goes all science, medicine, a godzillion doctors and nurses on the unemployment lines along with another godzillian support staff, technicians, drug and medical paraphanelia manufacturers, trucking companies, building contractors, insurance specialists, administrative, secreatrial, lawyers, paper manufacturers, great scott! Do you people know how much the worlds economy depends on pain, suffering a nd evil to stay afloat? All the police, prison guards, builders and suppliers of jails and prisons, judges, lawyers, more legal staff and secreataries, magistrates, man-o-man...you guys trying to bury us or something...shhhhh...they didn't mean it god....go back to ignoring us....we got everything under control....

BioBeing

Of course, who needs God when you can just get one of these (it even comes with a video!):



errrr - I mean a barber. Who needs a barber!

BioBeing

So God created evil on purpose to make sure we all had jobs? How nice of him! God's Employment Agency.

trillian

How about scientists, explorers, educators, students, artists, chefs, builders, gardeners, dog breeders, farmers, actors, salespersons, architects, engineers, journalists, musicians, mathmeticians, astronauts, oh and barbers!!! Need I go on? The list would be of immense proportions!!

Mankind would adapt to a lack of suffering and evil just fine.

trillian

Jamie_L

rainbow walking:

You are essentially saying that if there were no suffering, we would suffer. What we (or at least I) am talking about is minimizing suffering. Maybe we do need a little suffering to prevent us from suffering more deeply. I don't necessarily think that's true, but I'll grant it for now. It does not, however, follow that the world now could not have less suffering. Even if what you say is true, there is some saddle point, where suffering is minimized. Where we are neither unnecessarily bored nor unnecessarily subjected to pain and misery. I have yet to find someone who can convince me that we are at that saddle point as things exist now.

Suffering is only God's problem if he is claimed to be benevolent. If I am riding on a crowded bus, and an exhausted pregnant woman gets on but can't find anywhere to sit down, this is technically not my problem. I didn't make her walk around the city on a busy day. I didn't make her pregnant. I didn't make all these other people ride the bus. However, if I later claim that I was being benevolent towards that pregnant woman, even though I did not offer her my seat, people would look at me cross-eyed and call me a big fat liar.

Again, why is it benevolent for an omnipotent diety to ignore suffering he can stop, but when I do it I'm a selfish bastard?

Jamie

rainbow walking

rw: hey, come on dude, god didn't create evil...man did. Why is god obligated to do for man what man can do for himself?

rainbow walking

rw: Yeah, if man addresses the evil and suffering himself. Who needs a god anyway? You want to give up your atheism and start cowtowing to a preacher again...?

rainbow walking

rw: Hey, some good always comes out of suffering...especially over the long haul...so don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

rw: You ain't god. If she happens to get on a bus with god, I'm quite certain he'll up his seat to her.

rw: Why is it not benevolent for him to leave us alone and let us work it out? You want a god doing everything for us? I don't. You think man would be satisfied if a god stepped in and started healing folks? Hell no...we'd be clamoring for everything from getting the Bushies outta the hothouse to making bird shit turn into icecream. Sooner or later we'd become useless...or that is to say...more useless than we are now.

Spenser

Lets not forget that many of the ones suffering are 'going to God'

If everyone that was suffering was an atheist, there would be a lot more atheists in the world...

Jamie_L

Which in no way argues that more good comes out of our current level of suffering than would come out of less suffering.

God is omnipotent. God is omniscient. Practially speaking, God is on that bus, and God could make her a seat. I have never seen or heard of that happening.

It's in the nature of the word benevolent. If a homeless shelter shut it's doors and said "these homeless people need to work out their own problems," would we think that shelter benevolent?

Again, God seems to get a different standard for "benevolent" than normal people. His standard seems lower, yet it's claimed he is more benevolent than any human could ever be. How does that make any sense?

Jamie