garsy

As a new member of II I have been looking through some of the previous postings and way back in July Vorkosigan wrote:

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Yes, that's right. Atheism is just a lack of belief in gods. It doesn't provide anything else (nor does it claim to); the holder of that view has to provide those another way.
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(Sorry, Vorkosigan, if this is sudden and goes a little too way back, like)

It struck me, though, from what you stated, that although our common 'interest' is Atheism, what exactly does that say about us? As individuals and as a 'group'?

For instance, I know what a Christian is -- or aught to be -- someone who seeks to do good, who attempts to turn the other cheak, and I am conscious of his world view of things permanent and eternal.

However, an Athiest might hold that God does not exist, while not contradicting themselves when the also hold that violence is an acceptable form of doing business, or hold that child prostitution is acceptable or and etc.,

Is ONLY the desire to disafirm the existence of a God all that binds people here?

I know, I know, a forum for kite building or one for flower arranging wouldn't have one of its members question the necessity of their existence as a group (as a rule).

But kite making and flower arranging aren'y quite on a par with the FUNDAMENTAL idea and prctice of an existence without a God.

Or are they?

Philosoft

There is no good reason to define "atheism" in such a way that it excludes people who don't believe in god(s). We have, in addition to a plethora of other words that make it possible to more accurately describe individuals, the capability to invent and define additional words if necessary.

Atheism is the one thing that all atheists have in common. But as to what "binds" people here, I suspect you'll get a different answer from everyone you ask.

braces_for_impact

Some christians may dissagree with you on this point.



Your correct in that this would not be a contradiction. But only because child pornography, violence, etc. has nothing to do with atheism!

Is this another atheists have no personal responsibility and can commit evil without conscience statement? It looks like one. I'm getting full throttle tired of this kind of bigotry. Please a note to those theists that don't know. I'll say this one last time!

Being an atheist does not make one immoral!

Ah who am I kidding, I'll keep saying it until I'm blue in the face.

Speechless

I don't think that's his point at all. He's just saying that as a community, atheists have less of a connection than other religious groups do, because they only have that single (non)belief in common. Of course, many atheists, such as secular humanists for example, share other opinions and have more of a 'community'.

ImGod

Restate that and you get.

For instance, I know what an Athiest is -- or aught to be -- someone who seeks to do good, who attempts to turn the other cheak, and I am conscious of his world view of things permanent and eternal.

However, a Christian might hold that God does exist, while not contradicting themselves when the also hold that violence is an acceptable form of doing business, or hold that child prostitution is acceptable as perscribed by the bible.

Is ONLY the desire to afirm the existence of a God all that binds religious people?

People are people. The major religions have as much in common with each other as they do with athiesm. They are just more willing to understand each others positions because they hear the word God and translate it subconciously to "My God". That's why they are not as generous to "cults" like the Raelians because they use alien instead of the generic term "God".

braces_for_impact

Indeed, atheists as a group do not have much going for them as far as being a cohesive unit. Thus the old expression that herding atheists is like herding cats. I think this causes difficulties in using a common voice sometimes as well. Atheism doesn't to me seem an ideal central point for any group, because other than not believing in any deities, atheists can be as diverse as any other group of people. Democrats, republicans, independents, straight, gay, differing ethnic groups etc.

It does seem though that atheists are a tighter group when they feel their freedoms are being threatened.

pz

Equally aggravating is the christian corrolary, that being christian makes one moral. Both are equally false.

garsy

Philosoft said
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There is no good reason to define "atheism" in such a way that it excludes people who don't believe in god(s).
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Atheism by definition is the rejection of God or gods. I do not exclude any one at all. On the other hand not every one is an atheist. There is a difference in meaning.

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However, an Atheist might hold that God does not exist, while not contradicting themselves when the also hold that violence is an acceptable form of doing business, or hold that child prostitution is acceptable or and etc.,
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braces_for_impact replied
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Your correct in that this would not be a contradiction. But only because child pornography, violence, etc. has nothing to do with atheism!
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But very few are they who do not adhere to some given morality, usually, a form of Christian belief without the God element present.

braces_for_impact asked:
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Is this another atheists have no personal responsibility and can commit evil without conscience statement?
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No. Speechless understood me perfectly well.

ImGod said:
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People are people. The major religions have as much in common with each other as they do with atheism. They are just more willing to understand each others positions because they hear the word God and translate it subconsciously to "My God". That's why they are not as generous to "cults" like the Raelians because they use alien instead of the generic term "God".
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A good point. I also liked the way you took what I said and reversed it. And, indeed, I would hope that the Christian tenets DO underpin much of 'our ' morality. without them society could not function.

braces_for_impact said:
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It does seem though that atheists are a tighter group when they feel their freedoms are being threatened.
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Ahh, interesting. We can unite AGAINST a common 'enemy' but do not posses a common ideology. That is good, I think. It means Atheists are drawn from all walks of life and opinions. This can only be good for the debate.

The Naked Mage

Ahem.

<makes "pay up" sign with thumb and fingers>

Speechless

Ummm... those 'Christian' ethics have been around for thousands of years before Christianity. The only thing the Abrahamic religions added was lots of sexual repression.