catman

During Christ's life, the Jews had what they believe was an exclusive covenant with God. With Jesus dying on the cross it allowed for all races to form a racial covenant with God as the Jews had--but it ended the Jews covenant with God--unless they were to convert to christianity. If they were to convert, then they could no longer be jews. The opposite of christianity is not atheism--it is Judaism. You cannot serve two masters--either you are a believer in Jesus as christ, or you are like the jews or are, in fact, jewish.

agapeo

Don't forget about the classification of gentiles

Ojuice5001

You know, I can actually see similarities between the Jewish idea of a covenant, and the Roman idea of pax deorum. Both involve a sort of contract between humans and gods, and are important parts of the religion. And if the two religions are similar, and the Romans conquered the Jews rather than vice versa, why assume that the Jewish religion worshipped a real god and the Roman one didn't.

Incidentally, I think the Jews are still affiliated with Yahweh, and that has something to do with the fact that Allah is trying to destroy them.

sullster

Catman, did you make that up or did you quote from some Nazi writings? Was it Martin Luther or some Nazi catholic priest? I am just interested in your sources, that is all.

catman

The racial covenant comes from the Holy Bible--look it up. The Jews---not any of the gentiles had an exclusive (as oppose to inclusive) covenant with God. Read it in the bible if you think I am a liar. Let me point to you the last chapter of Nehemiah.

As far as the other stuff I said--it is in the bible too and history backs me up on this--and to some degree Martin Luther does too:
<a href="http://216.131.88.114/recreational/luther.html" target="_blank">http://216.131.88.114/recreational/luther.html</a>

Elaborate

Well, why was his death required? Couldn't God just snap his metaphysical fingers and make it so?

catman

Elaborate:

Just as Jesus himself got tempted by Satan--as do all humans--god could not interfere with Jesus's ultimate destiny. Now, the question is, was Jesus fated to hang on the cross as he predicted? Perhaps a better question is, was Jesus fated to alter the course of history for the Jewish people or alter God's covenant with the Jews? Jesus himself predicted an armagedon for the current generation. Now Mark--doesn't have this armagedon prediction and it is the oldest of the Gospels--but it is in Matthews--which apparently is believed to be written after the Romans laid waste of the Jews revolt which began in thge Spring of 66 AD--and ended in 7 years (the Jews' favorite number--in the spring of 73). So, all these predictions in the New Testament came to pass just as Jesus fore told them--and he was a prophet--or supposedly was. Now--let us dismiss what it says in Matthews and for the moment agree with the scholars and say it was written after the fact. OK--now we are left still with Jesus predicting him self dying on the cross--but I am not sure it says that in Mark--someone help me on this one. Anyway--let's just say Jesus did make this prediction. Was it fated that there was no other course? No. Fact is it was the Jews decision--and they chose to free the murderer Barabbas over Jesus--I'm too lazy to look this up in Mark--just a sec--Mark 8:34--he does predict his own demise at the cross. Yes--Barabbas is realeased in Mark, too. But the Jews very well could have made Jesus their messiah--but they chose not and still today choose not. Indeed--the only part of the New Testament they seem to all agree on is a lie--in Mark 15:34 it is reported that Jesus said on the cros Eloi, Eloi lama sabachthani. and this they say interprets to "My God, My God why hast thou forsaken me." I have read that this is not to correct interpretation--and I know for myself it does not make any sense interpreted that way. What he said instead--which does make sense is: Nation of Israel, Nation of Israel why hast thou forsaken me.

Can any expert out there say differently?

[ December 20, 2002: Message edited by: catman ]</p>

sullster

Personally I greatly admire the Jews for having the hutzpah to reject a false messiah. They came up with this messiah nonsense and then seemed to reject it.
The Jews have suffered for 2 thousand years and that seems to support their belief that Jesus was a fake. Good for Isreal.

Amos

I admire them for having crucified him. Without that there would have been no victory and we might still be living in caves.

sullster

Balderdash. If Christianity had not infected the mind of Western Civilization with its superstitions and poisons, we could be living in distant Galaxies now. The early science and reason of Greek civilization was diverted by your "victory" of religious irrationality.
We are only now reaping the rewards of the rejection of christian irrationality and the triumph of the advance of science.

MAy time be counted from the end of christianity and soon.