Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Valentine Pontifex · 08-22-2002, 06:25 PM

The ACLU is sueing to have anti-evolution disclaimer removed in Georgia.

<a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,61065,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,61065,00.html</a>

Kevin Dorner · 08-22-2002, 06:36 PM

Was looking for that story yesterday... the big sources aren't as quick as I would have expected. Thanks for the link.

Valentine Pontifex · 08-22-2002, 07:12 PM

BTW here is what the Cobb County disclaimer says:

Quote:

This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered.

<a href="http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/opinion/0402/0414cobb.html" target="_blank">Source</a>

The state at large also has anti-evolution disclaimers as well. See <a href="http://www.world-of-dawkins.com/Dawkins/Work/Articles/alabama/1996-04-01alabama.htm" target="_blank">this</a> and <a href="http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articles/1910_dissecting_the_disclaimer_2_7_2001.asp" target="_blank">that</a>.

Albion · 08-22-2002, 08:15 PM

Good grief. How to get an A grade in schools around there. Just take th equestions from that disclaimer, and away you go.

"Why did the major groups of animals suddenly appear in the fossil record (known as the Cambrian Explosion)?"

Goddidit.

"Why have no new major groups of living things appeared in the fossil record in a long time?"

Goddidit.

"Why do major groups of plants and animals have no transitional forms in the fossil record?"

Goddidit.

"How did you and all living things come to possess such a complete and complex set of "instructions" for building a living body?"

Goddidit.

Congratulations, you pass with distinction, and the entire course only took five minutes. Efficient as well as moral.

Heck, they'll be applying to Harvard next.

KC · 08-23-2002, 05:06 AM

THey should also propose this disclaimer for chemistry texts:

This textbook contains material on atoms. The existence of atoms is based on theory, not fact. No atoms have ever been directly observed. Instead, their existence is inferred from observed effects, using instruments and techniques which are dependent on theories in physics (see the Physics text disclaimer). This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered.

Cheers,

KC

[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: KCdgw ]

Wyz_sub10 · 08-23-2002, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KCdgw:
THey should also propose this disclaimer for chemistry texts:

This textbook contains material on atoms. The existence of atoms is based on theory, not fact. No atoms have ever been directly observed. Instead, their existence is inferred from observed effects, using instruments and techniques which are dependent on theories in physics (see the Physics text disclaimer). This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered.

Cheers,

KC

[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: KCdgw ]

My thoughts exactly! The fact of the matter is that evolution is repugnant to many people and atomic theory is not - that's the only difference.

Consider that there are basically four issues that are *ever* addressed by "creation science" - the Big Bang, age of the earth, a global flood and evolution.

Why don't we hear more Christian uproar on quantum mechanics? After all, even *Einstein* said God doesn't play dice. (said with my best "appeal to authority" voice)

In a way, I wish the ACLU would not get involved. Yes, there needs to be someone with pull fighting the good fight, but it puts the emphasis on the political, "Liberal vs. Conservative" spin on the issue. I'd rather leave the fighting to the NAS.

Oddly enough, here in Canada it isn't much of an issue. I attended a Catholic high school growing up and we were taught evolution cold in my senior biology class. In fact, when I did a paper trying to bridge scientific and religious views on the matter (back when I was a Christian) I used a few quotes from Duane Gish. It was my teacher who told me that he was a bad source and that his science sucked.

beausoleil · 08-23-2002, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Albion:

"Why have no new major groups of living things appeared in the fossil record in a long time?"

They're joking, right?

theyeti · 08-23-2002, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by beausoleil:


They're joking, right?

They're not joking, they're just dishonest. What they're referring to here is the Cambrian Explosion. Apparently birds, mammals, flowering plants, fish, insects, dinosaurs, etc. don't qualify as "major groups". And apparently we should classify things such that phyla appear long after the various subgroups that are included within them.

theyeti

theyeti · 08-23-2002, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LordValentine:
The ACLU is sueing to have anti-evolution disclaimer removed in Georgia.

<a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,61065,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,61065,00.html</a>

I don't understand why they don't go after the Alabama disclaimers. The Cobb county ones are mostly innocuous. On the other hand, the Alabama ones contain numerous falsehoods and misleading statements. The Cobb county ones just have that stupid "it's a theory, not a fact" BS in them.

theyeti

Kevin Dorner · 08-23-2002, 07:27 AM

No, they aren't joking...

<a href="http://www.closetatheist.com/alabamadisclaimer.htm" target="_blank">The original Alabama disclaimer</a>

Quote:

Why did the major groups of animals suddenly appear in the fossil record (known as the Cambrian Explosion)?
Why have no new major groups of living things appeared in the fossil record in a long time?
Why do major groups of plants and animals have no transitional forms in the fossil record?
How did you and all living things come to possess such a complete and complex set of "instructions" for building a living body?

However, the disclaimer was changed and shortened (<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2001/fyi/teachers.ednews/11/09/evolution.ap/" target="_blank">CNN article</a>) with the points above removed for new texbooks in late 2001. All textbooks between 1996 and 2001 will still contain the longer disclaimer AFAIK...

[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: Kevin Dorner ]

08-22-2002, 06:25 PM	#1
Valentine Pontifex Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Orion Arm of the Milky Way Galaxy Posts: 3,092	ACLU Sues Over Alabama Disclaimer The ACLU is sueing to have anti-evolution disclaimer removed in Georgia. <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,61065,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,61065,00.html</a>

08-23-2002, 05:06 AM	#5
KC Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Narcisco, RRR Posts: 527	THey should also propose this disclaimer for chemistry texts: This textbook contains material on atoms. The existence of atoms is based on theory, not fact. No atoms have ever been directly observed. Instead, their existence is inferred from observed effects, using instruments and techniques which are dependent on theories in physics (see the Physics text disclaimer). This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered. Cheers, KC [ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: KCdgw ]</p>

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08-22-2002, 06:36 PM	#2
Kevin Dorner Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 762	Was looking for that story yesterday... the big sources aren't as quick as I would have expected. Thanks for the link.

08-22-2002, 08:15 PM	#4
Albion Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: US east coast. And www.theroyalforums.com Posts: 2,829	Good grief. How to get an A grade in schools around there. Just take th equestions from that disclaimer, and away you go. "Why did the major groups of animals suddenly appear in the fossil record (known as the Cambrian Explosion)?" Goddidit. "Why have no new major groups of living things appeared in the fossil record in a long time?" Goddidit. "Why do major groups of plants and animals have no transitional forms in the fossil record?" Goddidit. "How did you and all living things come to possess such a complete and complex set of "instructions" for building a living body?" Goddidit. Congratulations, you pass with distinction, and the entire course only took five minutes. Efficient as well as moral. Heck, they'll be applying to Harvard next.

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