LotusEater

I've been reading Nietzsche lately and his thoughts on Christianity and was wondering if he was accurate or biased as I've heard him be called?

"Toward a history of Christianity. Continual change of milieu: Christian doctrine is therefore continually changing it's emphasis- Favoring of lowly and little people-- The developement of charity-- The type "Christian" reassumes step by step everything that it originally negated (in the negation of which it endured--). The Christian becomes citizen, soldier, judge, worker, merchant, scholar, theologian, priest, philosopher, farmer, artist, patriot, politician, "prince"-- he takes up again all the activities he has forsworn (--self-defense, judgement, punishment, oath-taking, distinguishing between nation and nation, contempt, wrath--). The whole life of the Christian is at lst exactly the life from which Christ preched deliverance--
The church is what is as much a symptom of the triumph of the anti-Christian as the modern state, modern nationalism-- The church is the barbarization of Chriastianity. -Nietzsche WTP#213

Just some questions out of curiousity and I'd be interested in your opinions.

Is modern Christianity a mockery of what Jesus taught, was Jesus an anarchist and against institutionalized religion? Has Christianity evolved away from it's roots and become the opposite of what it was?

Is modern Christianity a mockery of early Christinity and it's slave morality, especially in a powerful, capitalistic society like the U.S. where most seek the superiority, power and animalistic validation of materiaistic success? Are class distinctions unchristian? Is state sanctioned crime and punishment unchristian?

In your opinions what would Jesus be politically? I would think from the little I know that he would lean liberal even though conservatives are the more "Christian" party.

Here are some quotes from the New Testament, I was wondering if they are taken out of context and if not how do they relate to the current war on terrorism led by a "Christian"(Bush) or wars involving "Christians" in the past(Crusades). Have the lambs evolved to grow claws, fangs and a blood-thirst?

"Ye hath heard that it had been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy. But I say onto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them who dispitefully use you and persecute you; thet ye may be the children of your father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and good, and sendeth the rain on the just and on the unjust." -Matt 5:43-5

"Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him: if he thirst give im drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head." -Romans 12:20-21

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say onto you, that ye resist no evil: but whoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." -Matt 5:38-9

"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves; but rather give place onto wrath: for it is written, vengeance is mine: I wil repay, saith the Lord." -Romans 12:19

[ June 04, 2002: Message edited by: LotusEater ]</p>

missus_gumby

I am moving this one to Misc Religious Discussions. It will find a much nicer home there.

LotusEater

Can anyone help me out?

Toto

Christianity deviated from its roots around 300 C.E., when Constantine made it an official religion of the Roman Empire. At various times after that, individuals and groups have tried to get back to their pure Christian roots, but none of these efforts have born fruit.

So you have to ask why this is. The explanation that pops up is that the Jesus character in the Gospels (whether he existed or not) was not giving any explicit instructions for a reasonable way to live in this world. He expected the end of the world within the lifetime of those hearing him. He was therefore not concerned with materialism or any of the actions a society or nation needs for survival. Anyone trying to live a life of material poverty with no regard for self defense is not going to last long.

You may notice that this society claims to be Christian, but has a deep distrust of most of those who take their Christianity really seriously.

Jamie_L

Fundamentalist Christians are basically followers of Judaism who believe in Christ.

They are most comfortable with the Old Testament, with a wrathful god, and with "eye for an eye" justice.

Jamie

Godless Dave

But don't follow the dietary restrictions.

Marduk

"Is modern Christianity a mockery of what Jesus taught, was Jesus an anarchist and against institutionalized religion? Has Christianity evolved away from it's roots and become the opposite of what it was?"

Yes. Toto said it all pretty well. In addition Jesus was much opposed to the trappings of religion, following the letter of the law, making a big fuss about how pious you are and all the dumb rituals you perform and observe while still being a greedy selfish slimeball out to glorify yourself. How many times does the Bible complain about idolatry, so what does the church do? Create idols! Shrouds, bones of dead saints, huge cathedrals, shrines out the wazoo!

JL

Yes, as Nietzsche said, the only true christian died on the cross. Ironically from what I gather he seemed to admire or at least be fascinated by Jesus, but his followers are another matter.

To answer your question, yes I think modern Christianity stands as the antithesis of its founder. The rampant hypocrisy is just a symptom of a religion that is at its root, as Toto alluded to and Nietzsche was so fond of saying, nihilistic. To exist and propagate it must stand on its head and deny itself.

Forgive me for digressing for a moment Lotus, but it seems to fit with the topic. Nietzsche saw science and atheism as the natural evolution of Xianity. Through their love of morality, of honesty came the inescapable point where honesty began to supplant belief.