dimossi

In recent debates with some Fundies here at the workplace we have come to the argument of whether Religion has more evil or good effects in today's society.

The Fundies did at least admit that more death, violence, war, etc. had religious origins in the past but the debate now was about society today.

I insisted that even today there is still plenty of violence, war, etc. fueled by religion. I believe that these "evils" still outweigh and "good" that might come to those that practice religion. Does anyone have any links or comments that would back-up (or debunk) my claim?

Thanks.

pug846

How could you even begin to possibly figure out how much evil or good religion has done? And you are going to run into problems about what is considered "evil" and what is considered "good."

cheetah

I agree, it seems pretty much impossible to provide evidence to this fact. I would love to get funding for a study on it, though!

I, however, agree that it is definitely the case that more evil is done than good by religiouns. Their good stuff seems almost all to be lip service to me, while they spend the rest of the time hating and devaluing other human beings. Maybe Christianity and other religions SOUNDED like a good idea, but in practice, they fail. Kind of like Communism.

pug846

"...it seems pretty much impossible to provide evidence to this fact...I agree that it is definitely the case that more evil is done than good by religiouns..." (emphasis mine)

Hmm...beleiving in a fact that you admit can't be falsified? Sounds oddly familiar....Doesn't a certain group do that as well?

And when did communism sound like a good idea?

[ January 29, 2002: Message edited by: pug846 ]</p>

Jonsey3333

Yes, you need to decide what's evil. Are you going to use death tolls, lies, hypocrisy? Pick out measurable traits you can measure. You can work off of that.

-Mike

echidna

To put words on dimossi’s keyboard, I’d suggest that that is what the opening post is asking of the respondents. Heh, don’t answer a question with another question. I read the question as asking "in your opinion", so it’s fairly broad request.

I don’t think that my morality differs too violently from the general humanist sentiments of the board.

So from there I’d conclude that questioning religion’s worth is just too simplistic a question. Amongst the thousands of religions is the full spectrum of human behaviours, so naturally there are those which run closely with humanism, and those which are quite diametrically opposed.

If this helps :

In favour -
Emotional crutch for those in need
Moral voice and guide (for better and worse) in the community
Community group bonding people
Charity institutions

Opposed -
Poor sex education, contraception policies, etc
Conservative bigotry & institutionalised chauvinism
Religious division and animosity

The church I occasionally visit (myself being devoutly agnostic BTW), simply loves bagging orthodox religion. The old minister will quite happily kick them to death from a humanist perspective, and will discuss difficult issues without pontificating. No, I believe that his and many similar churches have much worth. Islamic fundamentalists blowing up buildings, Christian Fundamentalists shooting abortion doctors, Hill Tribe animists sacrificing twin babies, no I think we can ultimately do without that.

Hence a simple answer for a simple question, sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Ms. Siv

Good and evil are subjective terms. Probably a more objective way of looking at is to ask of religion is detrimental to the progress of human civilization ?

I would say yes.
Why ?

Because .....

1. Religion and pseudo science prevent our children from having a rational education .

2. They prevent us from removing the fundamental causes of war. Religion is one of the primary labels by which a "they" as opposed to an "us" can be identified. Dogmatic faith creates a lot of bigotry and intolerance and is the reason for much wasted potential.

3. They prevent us from teaching the ethics of scientific cooperation instead of the old fierce doctrines of sin and punishment.

4. Faith makes people stop CARING about the truth. Emotional comfort is preferred to intellectual honesty and integrity. Believing in falsehoods corrupts our cognitive processes, it precludes a wise management of our lives and our resources, it interferes with our relationship with others and it is the biggest bug-a-boo when it comes to making public policy.

- Sivakami.

[ January 29, 2002: Message edited by: Sivakami S ]</p>

Layman

Are you saying progess is not a subjective term? Why?

dimossi

Thanks for all the feeback. I know that the terms good and evil are vague but I just wanted to get some quick opinions.

Thanks.

Ms. Siv

But there are degrees of subjectivity, aren't there ?

Not many will deny that we are better off from what we were as a species of homo erectus .... but as to whether some act is good or not ... far more people will disagree.

- Sivakami.