Freethought & Rationalism Archive

hinduwoman · 07-23-2003, 05:56 PM

http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl2003...4001504900.htm

Quote:

Adopted on January 31, 1980, the founding day of the NSCN, [National socialist council of Nagaland; Nagaland is a North-Eastern province of India] and revised in November 1993, the document constitutes the most explicit expression of its ideology. "... The spread of Hinduism and the queer noises have reached our homeland. Although as a doctrine Hinduism is not a recruiting force, it is not to be easily dismissed, since it is backed by a Hindu government. The forces of Hinduism, viz., the numberless Indian troops, the retail and wholesale dealers, the teachers and the instructors, the intelligent, the prophets of non-violence, the gamblers and the snake-charmers, Hindi songs and Hindi films, the rosogula [a kind of sweetmeat] makers and the Gita are all arrayed for the mission of supplanting the Christian God, the Eternal God of the universe. The challenge is serious; there is no hiding, no pretension... To join the Indian Union... is to allow ourselves to be drowned and perish in these waves of dead doctrine. Whereas to defend the Nagalim's Independent Existence... is to assure ourselves safe from the doom of Hinduism. This is a simple logic. The failure of the Christian leaders to grasp the way the evil forces work and their failure to face them in the way they should, has indeed, placed Nagalim on a most serious trial. We are not only confronted with a war of physical force but also with more dangerous insidious war of assimilation."

Addressing those `Naga religious leaders' who believe in "the illusion that constitutional sanction of India would safeguard the freedom of their faith" , the manifesto says: "Preachers of all ranks are gone after the blessings and the `award' of Indian bosses. Spiritual uprightness is pushed into the background, pliable demagogues are out, dressed in "dhoti" with that queer red mark of foreign goddess in their broad foreheads, preaching reverence for cows � half absorbed, full devil! O Nagalim, whither goeth thou!...

"Furthermore, the abundant amenities of life accorded to them are only sinister seeds of dissension being sown in the Naga family. Whatever it may be and wherever they may be, Nagas are Nagas and we shall prove the evil of this policy before long. India's `Ahimsa', `All Roads Lead to Rome' and `No Religion has the monopoly of righteousness' are no doubt, masterpieces of philosophy, but the way to eternal life is not philosophy. The time has come for you and for us either to shrink back or prove through. God wants us right now to stand for him. Now is the time to hold firm our ground with Christ and face the stick and carrot policy.... O men of God, lead us to Saviour Christ for He alone is the Way, the Truth and the Life that leads to God, the Father. Our Saviour taught us saying, `and thou shalt be hated of all nations for My name's sake'. Truly it is time and we hold the Moses' question � Who is on the Lord's side? Come for Christ, come for the Nagalim's freedom... There is no third way, because `he who is not with me is against me and he who does not gather with me scatters'."

[Rant: Completely ignores history. Nagas learnt about Christianity only during British rule. Their traditional religion was a mixture of tribal rites and Hindu gods. If anything , Christianity supplanted the 'national' religion of Nagalim. And what this stuff about foreign goddess ? --- North East India had always been stronghold of Magna Mater worship with many of its rituals passing into even Brahmanical creeds proper. Of course no mention of the murders of non-christian civilians they actually did.]

On a more hopeful note, can we say this shows how fragile Christianity is if it is threatened by gamblers (using magic dices perhaps?), prophets of non-violence (I am not sure what that means exactly) and sweet sellers (a new WMD against religion discovered!)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/world/south_asia/899422.stm

Quote:

A tribal Hindu spiritual leader has been killed by separatist rebels in the northeastern Indian state of Tripura.

Police say about ten guerrillas belonging to the outlawed National Liberation Front of Tripura ,the NLFT, broke into a temple near the town of Jirania on Sunday night and shot dead Shanti Tripura, a popular Hindu preacher popularly known as Shanti Kali.

The separatist group says it wants to convert all tribespeople in the state to Christianity.

The BBC correspondent in the region says the killing has created tension between the majority of tribals, who are Hindu or Buddhist, and the small number of Christian converts.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/south_asia/758342.stm christian terrorists warn hindu tribals that they will kill them if they do not become christians, and the baptist churhc is supplying the rebels with arms

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/south_asia/717775.stm chistian terrorists ban hindu festivals,
church backing terrorists in order to expand the kingdom of christ

. http://www.sulekha.com/articledesc.asp?cid=195857

Quote:

I came to bring not peace but a sword � Jesus Christ

For seven-year-old Shreema, 13th Jan 2002 was a special Sunday. All through the year, the girl had awaited the dawn of this day. For, that was the day one goes out and purchases new clothes, new toys and sweets, as the next day would be Makar Sankranthi -- the harvest festival celebrated throughout India. The Singicherra Bazar was bustling with activity. Like Shreema's family there were many people looking forward to a happy Makar Sankranthi. But they didn't realise that they were violating a fatwa issued by the Baptist Church-created Christian Al-Qaeda, the National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT). Nor did they know that they would pay with their lives for celebrating a heathen festival of their motherland.

Shreema would never again celebrate Makar Sankranthi. She died, along with sixteen others, on the spot as 13 terrorists of the NLFT encircled the people shopping for the festival and fired indiscriminately1. The soldiers of Christ have done again in Tripura what they have been doing for centuries to heathens throughout the world.

The Baptist Church of Tripura is not just the ideological mentor of the NLFT; it also supplies the NLFT with arms and ammunition for the soldiers of the holy crusade2. Never mind that the holy war involves killing infants and torching the huts of 'heathen Hindoos'. The NLFT does all these to bring to the infidels the peace and love of Christ. So, when Nagmanlal Halam, secretary of the Noapara Baptist Church in Tripura, was arrested by the Tripura police he had rather curious tools for evangelisation, which included along with the gospel 50 gelatin sticks, 5 kg of potassium and 2 kg of sulphur and other ingredients for making explosives. Mr. Halam confessed that his activities for the saving the heathen souls involved buying and supplying explosives to the NLFT over the past two years. Another church official, Jatna Koloi, who was also arrested, admitted that he received training in guerrilla warfare at an NLFT base last year. Surely, gelatin and AK-47s have more efficiency when it comes to bringing the light of the only revealed truth to the disbelievers suffering in 'spiritual darkness'. Those who are in doubt can check it out with another great light-bearer of the other 'only true book', Osama bin Laden (that is, when and if the prophet of terror is captured).
� The NLFT has been an active partner of the Baptist Church in winning converts to the Christian creed. They have killed tribal priests to threaten communities and effect mass conversions. But those tactics have obviously backfired. In 2001 alone, the NLFT killed more than 20 Hindus who refused to 'accept the love of Christ'. They also torched to death a Hindu family sleeping in a hut

We are having three problems with these Christian terrorist groups:
We are finding is that foreign Churches (specially US based ones and need I mention Southern Baptists is very active?) are backing them with money and inciting the Christian population to join the groups. Appealing to the sponsors' consciences do not simply work; and trying to monitor flow of funding brings abuses of oppressing Christians and denying them the right to preach their religion.
Secondly Lots of civilians and soldiers are being killed. BUT WESTERN MEDIA EVEN WHEN NOTIFIED BY THE HINDU DIASPORA DOES NOT SEEM TO BE INTERESTED IN SUCH NEWS. Only the BBC publishes occasional items.
Third, on Internet forums repeated appeals have been made to Christians (who seem to be liberal) that they must protest against such activities and not donate to such churches anymore. But response is not encouraging. Most simply refuse to engage in the topic at all. Those who respond argue that (i) the situation cannot be as serious as that (ii) conversions by such methods are invalid (which is not of much help on the ground when the groups ban Hindu festivals or point a gun at villagers and ask them to convert killing those who refuse), (iii) Christianity is a religion of peace. Try to argue further or bring up the Inquisition and it ends up by the Christians accusing that since Christianity brings equality to lower classes the elite are preaching hatred against it. After that a dead end.

Serious question: Would it do any good to go on plugging the last two hoping for greater public knowledge in the West and reaction against the Churches, or will it never happen? Particularly are there any independent media who would publicize such atrocities in the name of Christianity?

NZAmoeba · 07-23-2003, 10:58 PM

of course they won't critisise christianity, its the one true religion ya know?

I think another argument they use is that these are just total nut jobs, and not true xtians... but then they go and yell at islam for being so violent, and can't understand why american islamics say their religion is of peace.

hypocrits, all of them

[can't.... bother... spelling....]

Sarpedon · 07-24-2003, 10:28 AM

The word is "Crusade." Christians have Crusades, Muslims have Jihads. What do Hindus have?

hinduwoman · 07-26-2003, 08:25 PM

Well Hindus are getting Hinduttva forces.

I must say I am a bit disappointed at lack of response.

Barcode · 07-27-2003, 01:06 AM

Isn't it odd that the task of speaking out against these things is usually left to the job of atheists/agnostics?

Whatever happened to loving thy neighbour?

I just don't understand the apathy from the pews. If I believed, and was part of a global organization that was committing crimes in other parts of the world, I'd be protesting, writing letters and demanding explanations from wherever I could.

Unfortunately, it seems some people think " well, since it doesn't affect me in my own safe and comfortable world I don't need to think about it or worry too much."

Which is of course a dangerous attitude.

But we already knew that about Christianity anyway.

Rachel · 07-27-2003, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barcode
I just don't understand the apathy from the pews. [/B]

It was stated quite clearly in the OP that these events are rarely reported in Western media. You'll probably find most christians don't have a clue it's happening. This is the first I've heard of it.

Sarpedon · 07-27-2003, 09:26 AM

Speaking of the non-reporting of indian news in the west, is there any news about the notorious Veerappan?

contracycle · 07-28-2003, 07:41 AM

Western news is too busy criticising the specks in the eyes of others to concern itself with the log in its own.

hinduwoman · 07-30-2003, 12:34 AM

Many are hoping that once the larger Western population gets to know of what is happening they will stop it.
But as I said the Christians encountered on the net flatly refuse to discuss it.
Most devout Indian christians are just as bad. They will arguye that anyway Hinduism has caste.

Another bit of news:
http://rediff.com/news/2000/oct/28ulfa.htm
Separatist militants went on a rampage Friday, killing at least 10 Hindus in front of a temple in Assam, a police spokesman said

Are there any media outlets that would be interested in publicizing what Christians are doing with the help of donations from the west?

andy_d · 07-30-2003, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by contracycle
Western news is too busy criticising the specks in the eyes of others to concern itself with the log in its own.

"Western news" doesn't speak for Christianity. It's ferociously secular.

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07-23-2003, 10:58 PM	#2
NZAmoeba Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 478	of course they won't critisise christianity, its the one true religion ya know? I think another argument they use is that these are just total nut jobs, and not true xtians... but then they go and yell at islam for being so violent, and can't understand why american islamics say their religion is of peace. hypocrits, all of them [can't.... bother... spelling....]

07-24-2003, 10:28 AM	#3
Sarpedon Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Minnesota, the least controversial state in the le Posts: 8,446	The word is "Crusade." Christians have Crusades, Muslims have Jihads. What do Hindus have?

07-26-2003, 08:25 PM	#4
hinduwoman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: India Posts: 6,977	Well Hindus are getting Hinduttva forces. I must say I am a bit disappointed at lack of response.

07-27-2003, 01:06 AM	#5
Barcode Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Portugal Posts: 633	Isn't it odd that the task of speaking out against these things is usually left to the job of atheists/agnostics? Whatever happened to loving thy neighbour? I just don't understand the apathy from the pews. If I believed, and was part of a global organization that was committing crimes in other parts of the world, I'd be protesting, writing letters and demanding explanations from wherever I could. Unfortunately, it seems some people think " well, since it doesn't affect me in my own safe and comfortable world I don't need to think about it or worry too much." Which is of course a dangerous attitude. But we already knew that about Christianity anyway.

07-27-2003, 09:26 AM	#7
Sarpedon Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Minnesota, the least controversial state in the le Posts: 8,446	Speaking of the non-reporting of indian news in the west, is there any news about the notorious Veerappan?

07-28-2003, 07:41 AM	#8
contracycle Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: London Posts: 1,425	Western news is too busy criticising the specks in the eyes of others to concern itself with the log in its own.

07-30-2003, 12:34 AM	#9
hinduwoman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: India Posts: 6,977	Many are hoping that once the larger Western population gets to know of what is happening they will stop it. But as I said the Christians encountered on the net flatly refuse to discuss it. Most devout Indian christians are just as bad. They will arguye that anyway Hinduism has caste. Another bit of news: http://rediff.com/news/2000/oct/28ulfa.htm Separatist militants went on a rampage Friday, killing at least 10 Hindus in front of a temple in Assam, a police spokesman said Are there any media outlets that would be interested in publicizing what Christians are doing with the help of donations from the west?

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