Karen M

Good afternoon Funky and Kalestia


Kal:

Let me see if I understand this correctly? Faith is something that must be done part by the individual and part by God? Does the individual have a free choice on their own about whether or not to do their part of faith?


Funky:

So a work is an action or something someone must do to get into Heaven? Correct? Please answer yes or no to this, and if the answer is no, pls explain why it isn't correct.


So you are saying faith is the act of saying that no one is righteous, and all have sinned? Again, pls answer yes or no, and if no, pls explain why.

[ July 22, 2002: Message edited by: Karen M ]</p>

FunkyRes

Works was a system of things that people were required to do.

That is why it is frequently (always?) plural in nature.

Salvation by Works was the set of rules and regulations that the pharisees had set up to proclaim themselves holy.

It could be equated with a way to demonstrate to others that you were righteous.

Faith is different than this, faith only requires that you believe God.

It does not require any work to prove it.

To put it another way, works was a way of EARNING your salvation.

Salvation is not earned, lest any man should boast.

Salvation is a free gift to any who believe.

God is not required to give salvation to any who believes, but he does.

Works, on the other hand, implies that you get salvation as a wage for what you do, not as the free Gift of God.

That is the difference.

[ July 22, 2002: Message edited by: FunkyRes ]</p>

Kalestia

Amen to that, Funky

Kalestia

"Faith is a living, daring confidence in God's grace, so sure and certain that a man would stake his life on it a thousand times. This confidence in God's grace and knowledge of it makes men glad and bold and happy in dealing with God and all His creatures; and this is the work of the Holy Ghost in faith. Hence a man is ready and glad, without compulsion, to do good to everyone, to serve everyone, to suffer everything, in love and praise to God, who has shown him this grace; and thus it is impossible to separate works from faith, quite as impossible as to separate heat and light fires. Beware, therefore, of your own false notions and of the idle talkers, who would be wise enough to make decisions about faith and good works, and yet are the greatest fools. Pray God to work faith in you; else you will remain forever without faith, whatever you think or do."
~Martin Luther "Commentary on Romans"

You asked for a Protestant's point of view

TheDiddleyMan

First of all, I am not sure that a work is simply defined as anything man has to do to get into heaven. I believe that for something to be considered a work it is has to be something done to earn something - meritorious. If I perform an hours worth of service for you and you pay 8 bucks, I worked for the money and earned it. If you offer me eight dollars, and I accepted your offer and took your money, that is simply me accepting your money. Yes, technically, I did something (reach out and take it), but nobody would consider me reaching out and grabbing the money as "earning" it, whereas everybody would accept that if I do an hours worth of service for you, in exchange for eight dollars that I earned it.

Secondly, faith isn't even considered a work by most of the Catholics I have know (though that is not many), and secondly, Paul clearly distinguishes between faith and works. Whether or not he teaches that we are saved by both of them or not is another discussion, but he does distinguish between "faith" and "works" and so does James, so there really is no point in asking whether or not faith logically is some kind of "work" because it is obviously not something Paul or James would consider a "work", in the way you are trying to make it out to be.

Karen M

Okay, I guess I had the wrong definition of "work." Thanks for your posts all.