NOGO

People make much of the meaning of Emmanuel, that is, "God with us" but almost all Jewish names of the times are like that.

Isaiah, which means "God's help"
Michael , "Like unto God"
Israel, "Striving with God"
Elihu, "He is my God"
Adonijah , "Yahweh Lord" etc.

Any of these names would have brought the same kind of comment as the above.

This also shows that Immanuel is not a title. It is just a typical Jewish name.

Haran

The reason that people "make much of the meaning of Immanuel", is because Matthew did - Matt. 1:23.

As you show, names had meaning. When the name Immanuel was given in Isaiah 7:14, it was probably because of its meaning. Therefore, I'm not sure why one couldn't think of at least some of these names as "titles" for some.

Anyway, it is because of Matthew, not because some want to arbitrarily assign value only to this one name...

Paul Baxter

Also,

the point Matthew is making, which would be more than obvious if we were his contemporaries, is that "God with us" is exactly what was claimed by the Roman emperors. Also, the term basileius or king, is the term used both of Jesus and the emperor, just as basileia tou theo--kingdom of God--is equivalent to the basileia--empire--which the Romans claimed was ordained by the gods, particularly Jupiter.

Evangelion

Well said, NOGO. I agree.

The significance of the application of this name to Jesus is not ontological, but eschatological. When first used by Isaiah, it indicated that the birth of the child was a sign that God was with His people. Matthew follows suit.

The translation of the Greek word onoma (onoma) as "name" is somewhat misleading, for onoma signifies much more than just a name.

According to Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

• The name is used for everything which the name covers, everything the thought or feeling of which is aroused in the mind by mentioning, hearing, remembering, the name, i.e. for one’s rank, authority, interests, pleasure, command, excellences, deeds etc.

He also says that it can refer to...

• The cause or reason named: "on this account, because he suffers as a Christian"; "for this reason."

Isaiah does not require, therefore, that Jesus should be literally called "Immanuel" in the sense of a proper name. Instead, his use of this word need only refer to the birth and ministry of Jesus as proof that God had visited the Jews through the agency of His prophet.

This is amply demonstrated by the response of the common people to Jesus himself:

• Luke 7:13-16.
  And when the Lord saw her, he had compassion on her, and said unto her, Weep not.
  And he came and touched the bier: and they that bare him stood still. And he said, Young man, I say unto thee, Arise.
  
  And he that was dead sat up, and began to speak. And he delivered him to his mother.
  And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

These sentiments had already been expressed in the prophetic words of Isaiah and the subsequent reference by Matthew.

Now they find their ultimate fulfilment in the ministry of Jesus.

NOGO

This is an opinion not a fulfilled prophecy and the name Emmanuel does not prove otherwise.

NOGO

Tell that to Magus55.

The significance to Isaiah was that he was trying to convince King Ahaz that the child was a sign for him (Ahaz) from God.

I take it that you believe that early Christians thought the the end of the world was at hand and that Jesus was a "final" sign.

Evangelion

Thankyou for your opinion.

Agreed.

They certainly believed this before his death and resurrection, yes. But their views certainly changed when Christ was raised.

EstherRose

Jesus is not a prophet. He is the Messiah, the Son of God, part of the Trinity.

Your profile says you're a Christian, Evangelion, yet you don't believe in the divinity of Christ?

Evangelion

• Luke 24:19.
  And [Jesus] said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
  
• John 4:10.
  The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
  
• John 6:14.
  Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.
  
• John 9:17.
  They say unto the blind man again, What sayest thou of him, that he hath opened thine eyes? He said, He is a prophet.

Were all these people wrong, then?

Even Jesus referred to himself as a prophet:

• Matthew 13:53-58.
  And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed thence.
  And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?
  Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
  And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
  And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honor, save in his own country, and in his own house.
  And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Agreed.

Agreed.

Disagreed.

Correct.

EstherRose

Read these in context.

John 24
19"What things?" he asked.
20"About Jesus of Nazareth," they replied. "He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; 21but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. 22In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23but didn't find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. 24Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but him they did not see."
25He said to them, "How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26Did not the Christ[2] have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?" 27And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

Jesus after His resurrection meets up with them and shows them what the Scriptures had to say about the Messiah and how they applied. The part you quoted was what his followers had misunderstood.

John 4:10 says
10Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water."

If you are referring to the same story in the bible, then you are referring to the following verses. These do not refer to a prophet.

25The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."
26Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am He."

John 6
14After the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus did, they began to say, "Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world." 15Jesus, knowing that they intended to come and make him king by force, withdrew again to a mountain by himself.

Again context. The point of this statement is to show that they were mistaken in believing He was a mere prophet.

John 9:17.
Yes they were wrong when they said he was a mere prophet. They did not understand until after the resurrection that He is the Son of God, more than a prophet.

Matthew 13:53-58
Jesus refers to the history of treatment against the prophets to illustrate what they were doing. He did not mean He was a prophet.

What about these?
John 8
24Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."
(the original Greek does not contain the word he.)

John 8
58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
(Compare this with God in the OT when He refers to Himself as “I Am”)

John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.

John 20
26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

In Psalm 119, we are told over and over again that it is God who gives and preserves life. Jesus says the same thing in John 5:21 and 11:25.

John 5
21For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.

John 11
25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.

Whenever prophets spoke in the name of God they always prefaced “In the name of God I speak.” Jesus always said “verily I say unto you” He identified Himself with God because He is God.

I could add much more to illustrate the Trinity, but that would derail the thread and probably make no difference to you anyway.