Amos

Yes I read the first chapters and decided that it was to revealing and should not be part of the bible. I forgot the details but we have it around here someplace.

HelenM

Hmmm...it's gonna be a tough choice!

In fact it's probably not a decision I can make right now with a house full of extra people including 4 extra little kids

But I'll think about it, when I can

take care
Helen

Starboy

So I take it that you didn't have a chance to study it. I was hoping that you could share some of your thoughts on it. Your posts seem to indicate that you are an Thomas kind of believer.

Would you say that heaven is on earth? That eternity is available right now? That we are all god?

Starboy

Amos

Heaven is when our conscious mind is placed subservient to our subconscious mind. Kind of like when Jesus walked into the upper room and called his apostles to join him. Apostles are eiditic images.

Etenity is life along the right brain wherein time-as-such is not known.

Starboy

Amos, you are a flash back to the 60's. You know what I mean mannnn.

galiel

In other words, Amos, you are pulling a Bill Clinton. Rather than providing a definition, you are, in a sense, saying, "it depends on your definition of the word 'definition'".

Then I suppose you cannot comprehend the term Freethinker. How can you use it so freely and authoritatively, if you can't comprehend its meaning? And what does the frequency of occurence of Freethinkers have to do with the ability to share an English dictionary definition?

So a Freeman is an inner-driven, heaven-dwelling, pissing and shitting, um...what?

Wait--we are back to Freethinkers now? So a Freethinker is the Christian God? You say he (By the way, why is it always a he? Cannot women be Freethinkers or Freewomen or Gnostics?) rules over heaven and earth, does not think, and lives in a penthouse of his own mind. Sounds like God to me. Especially after a few too many, if you know what I mean

Since I am a Freethinker, and thus rule heaven and earth, I command you to drop all the evasions and simply look up a dictionary-type definition of the English language terms I asked about. This is useful, so that we do not discover after a long conversation that, say, when I say "metaphysics", you do not think I am referring to Hulk Hogan's biceps.

Well, you see, we have a problem there. "Gnostic" is a specific term to describe a particular mystical sect of Christianity, based on a particular set of beliefs that runs rather contrary to mainstream Christianity. I won't detail it here, because you will simply claim that you knew it all along. I'd rather you took the time to do your own homework before you post all these sophist evasions.

Either you don't know what these English terms mean, or you are incapable of completing a simply logical thought, or you are being deliberately obtuse. Either way, we can't accomplish anything unless you define your terms--without circular references, please.

If you are not completely comfortable with English, which is perfectly reasonable as we have many non-English speakers here, I suggest you consult a dictionary. My favorite is "The New Oxford American Dictionary", published in 2001, but any will help you communicate here more effecively. Assuming, of course, that that is you actual goal.

Starboy

galiel, my guess is that amos is a mystic. His concept of thought, eternity, being, heaven and god are based on meditation. In the meditative state all those are combined as one. There is some speculation that the Hindus influenced Jesus and that one can interpret some of the sayings of Jesus in this way. I read some place that the Gnostic church was based on the gospel of Thomas, and my understanding was that he presented Jesus as a very human mystic. In any case amos is way out there and unless you meditate a lot, you are not going to be able to make contact with him. And if you did, few on this thread could make heads or tails of it. Who knows, he may also be using drugs to assist in his meditations.

Starboy

agapeo

And I guess you're right.
Well, I would be lying if I said I never had any doubts about religious dogma. I can't imagine anyone making that claim but I suppose it's possible for some. I would question their honesty though. As to the first defining attribute I think that even when considering an authority, in any field, one should and perhaps does use reason to determine whether that authority is correct. That is: does what that authority says make sense based on what knowledge you possess. If you possess no knowledge in the field and merely accept the opinion of said authority without further investigation then I agree that you're not a freethinker.
Ahh, but correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the question concerning religious matters? (I'll have to check again to make sure)What other source would we (Christians) use concerning religious matters? Now if I wish to find out something about medicine I would go to an authority in medicine, wouldn't I?
And I do.
And it is.
Depends on what information we're speaking of.
You tell me.
In a broad sense one would have to be able to "freely think" in order to be a freethinker wouldn't they?
But what is reasonable or logical? To you it might be one thing. To another . . . well.
Then I would have to ask: What's a "spirit" in this context?
Yeah right and you wouldn't want to come to a place like this if you were constrained in your thinking, now would you?
I can understand this. If I read some of the things I've read over the last five years prior to becoming a Christian I would be less likely to have become one. There are some very strong arguments against Christianity. Some very intelligent ones. But I am still unpersuaded to change my fundamental (not fundie) beliefs.
That's honest of you. But I think you short-change yourself. Could it be that none of us are 100% freethinkers? And yes, you're right -- Life is short, but you only need to learn what is necessary to get you through it.

agapeo

Are you then saying that you never consider the possibility? If so, may I ask why you even discuss the topic unless you have an agenda to dissuade others?
That could be but that moment was preceding by many moments in time leading you to that moment. Surely you were doing a lot of thinking about your beliefs prior to that.
If you equate freethinker with atheism then I suppose you're right. But I still think you were a freethinker prior to becoming an atheist otherwise how did you get there?
Is there really something wrong with contemplating the non-existence of God? I don't think so. Each time I do something tips the scale in the opposite direction. In any case even if you had that "moment" I think there still would be the possibility of future moments. I say -- so what. Such is life.
Seems like you're talking about good feelings somewhat. Good feelings are fine and dandy but they come and go. And if getting a good feeling is all one wants well . . . I know of some good drugs that will give ya that. I enjoy feeling good but I prefer something making sense to me as well before I believe it.

agapeo

Originally posted by NOGO:
Possible. Let's see.
Then what do you do your thinking with?
Still sounds like the mind is involved somewhere in there.
If the theist is asking the question then it's too late. He already did question the word of God. But perhaps you meant to say if an atheist asks a theist a critical question. In which case I would agree with you -- I've heard the same responses when I've asked the questions to other theists myself. But then I'm not questioning the "word of God" per se but that theist's understanding of it.
Says who?