Rousseau_CHN

Force her? I really am provoked by this question in ways I cannot explain.

Are you going to shackle her?

Or are you going to call state troopers to arrest her?

Or are you just going to do it the old fashion way---grab her by the arm and drag her to your home?

What is the Christian thing to do? Why, the way you put it, I say to burn her at the stake. That's the Christian way.

If I were to choose to being forced to live with you or to die on my own free will.

I'd choose death over you. And if that choices keep repeating itself in the next life, I'd still choose death.

It's a line I pick up from the X-men: I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

Rousseau_CHN

It's the same important lesson to the same stupid question.

You can only receive what you are willing to give.

If you give love, then you can receive love.
But do not expect to give hate and receive love.

You can't teach humility honestly while residing in the grandios St. Peter Basilica.

You can't teach the Iraqis about freedom and democracy while you occupy their land.

You can't teach democracy with fascist method.

You can't force people to creative.

And, gaddamit, you can't force anyone to accept your care and love.

Rhea

Sabine, Thank you. You can rest assured we have exhausted all possible options.

Rousseau, I think you have me confused with a Christian. All of the people involved in this situation are non-christian. Well, MIL (mother in law) used to be, might be still, but that's up for debate.

Can we force her? Sure we can. We can get her license revoked and hold her medication hostage.

How would it look to any decent person that children allow their mother to live worse than a street person and do nothing? That's my viewpoint. I care about someone suffering out there. the point is she thinks she is doing fine. She isn't.

Of course we have invited her to live with us. And picked her up off her floor and lawn and driveway and brought her home enough times. I guess that is manhandling to you and we should leave her lying in the driveway in the snow.

Bizarre, IMO.

I'm sure she could handly dying of starvation. She has come close a number of times.

Well, gotta go. I'm still just shaking my head at people who think you should see a person lying on their floor in their own waste and walk away.

Astonishing to me.

Darth Dane

How would it look to any decent person that children allow their mother to live worse than a street person and do nothing? That's my viewpoint. I care about someone suffering out there. the point is she thinks she is doing fine. She isn't.

Of course we have invited her to live with us. And picked her up off her floor and lawn and driveway and brought her home enough times. I guess that is manhandling to you and we should leave her lying in the driveway in the snow.

You mix two things as I see it.

We are talking about the way to behave in heaven, by using an example from earth!

If I am looking at a child that is just about to fall over ledge, I would not ask if teh child wanted to be saved, I would refelxively reach out and grap the child. This is a physical situation. What we discuss in regards to heaven is non-physical.

The abuse of someone elses mind, and their personal choice towards something(God) which by definition(all most) is not physical, is "wrong" and we cannot force her, or should not force her. It's like the old saying, that you can drag a horse to the creek, but you can't make it drink the water.

If someone is dragged into heaven, but doesn't want to be there, and is not allowed to go, is a heaven without freewill.

If you force your Reality, i.e. one with God, on someone else, then you take away their choice in believing.

Well, gotta go. I'm still just shaking my head at people who think you should see a person lying on their floor in their own waste and walk away.

Astonishing to me.

See the difference, I at least, represent?




DD - Love Spliff

winstonjen

Then why separate us to begin with? Doesn't he care about us enough?

Darth Dane

Then why separate us to begin with? Doesn't he care about us enough?

If God Is, I don't think God seperated us from God's self, we seperated us from God's self.

Jesus states that the law is "ask and you shall be given", we must have asked God to be born here initially. Why? I think we must have seen that physical life could be fun, knowing we are eternal anyways, why not?




DD - Love Spliff

winstonjen

Then why can't we remember asking for it, let alone the first few years of our lives?

Darth Dane

Then why can't we remember asking for it, let alone the first few years of our lives?

Ignorance is bliss, but you can get enlightened in your life time anyways, that is.. if you pursue it. Do you wish to know?

Maybe it is fun, starting from scratch every time we come down here, some are born closer to the memory, a point on a scale of conciousness. Some are born saints from the get go, others as "sinners". But maybe it is just good fun all of it?




DD - Love Spliff

Rhea

On the contrary. Read back to the very beginning and you will see that the argument is that the "free will" thing that appears to be so all-fired important (notwithstanding nobody vetches about having no free will in terms of physics, time and chemistry, but somehow other free will becomes important) in the context of not having any proof of god

Now, what this has to do with free will is completely beyond me.

The non-believers are separated from the god because they don't like him (well the christian version is pretty icky, but we don't think that's "God" we think that's YOUR creation) but rather because they are unconvinced that s/he/it EXISTS at all.

So going back to the beginning of the topic you'll see people are trying to tell us that somehow the god would violate our free will and force his love on us by just poking in her/his head and hollering "hullooo!"

It's important for you to bear in mind that the FIRST hurdle is to convince non-believers that s/he/it EXISTS. Doing this does not violate anyone's free will in any way.

So this whole falling off a cliff thing is irrelevant. We're not talking about being conviced he's GOOD, we're talking about being convinced he EXISTS. And this would force love on us how?

abe smith

Say, "spliff": when you sign your posts "love spliff": (without any median comma), does this signature mean "I, Spliff, send you my love. See my magnanimity!" or, on the other hand (gloved or gloveless) do you mean "love spliff" to mean "PLEASE love me (Spliff) because I won't feel comf'tible unless I KNOW that youpeople here reeeely LOVE me." I realize that this quibble may seem fullish, but indeed it sticks in my craw every time you use it.....