three4jump

I was trying to find some good statistics on what happens to people who start out using drugs as light recreational users. I found a whole bunch of skewed and incredible "statistics" from the war-on-drugs people. It doesn't matter anyway. I also found out that 17 million Americans are sniffing glue! People are stupid, and whether or not illegal drugs are immoral is irrelevent. Since most everyone on this board can hold up their end of an intelligent conversation, I keep getting fooled into thinking that this has something to do with the real world. If 17 million Americans would sniff glue then debating the morality of illegal drugs is pointless.

Viti

three4jump....sad isn't it, I thought this thread was civil, intelligent, and that we all learned something...then reality hits for all of us. I have never personally met anyone who sniffed glue (or at least they didn't admit it). I watched a show about some country in S America, where there is a Nike factory and millions and million of street kids...the kids get hold of the rubber and glue from the shoe factory and carry it around in cans to get high...small kids, 9 or 10 and SO MANY

Well, that shouldn't stop us from trying and I think we should keep sharing info...don't get down...we need people like you if we want to make things better

three4jump

Thanks, LS, but if I can't convince reasonable and intelligent people that drugs are potentially dangerous and harmful, it makes the whole drug awareness and education scheme look pretty pointless. I probably even drove some people to drugs by annoying them.

Maybe the answer lies in inventing new drugs that can be used recreationally with less risk of addiction or health complications. (No, MDMA does not meet those criteria.)

Anyway, I'm sure I won't find the whole situation so hopeless if I just forget about it for a while and pick it up again at a later date.

Synaesthesia

I think it can be and often is immoral, depending upon the situation and the implementation of the prohibition. The prohibition of the 30's caused a higher rate of alcohol-related deaths than any other time. Prohibition of opiates, cocaine, marijuana and MDMA tells a similar story.

So tell me, when attempting to deny a population drugs causes MORE drug related deaths, do you escalate the war in hopes that if you jail enough of the bastards the problem will go away, or do you re-evaluate the reasons, scope and implementation of prohibition?

three4jump

If I somehow gave the impression I was talking about general prohibition, I apologize. What I intended to say is that if an individual decides not to personally use illegal drugs and if that same individual also decides not to play any role in supplying illegal drugs to others, then that individual could not be construed as doing anything immoral. I'm sure there is some semantic quibble yet to be had. <sigh>

If someone wants to convince me that I have a moral obligation to help people get cheap and clean recreational drugs by making them legal and well-regulated, I'm listening. However, I'd like to see a working model or a logical explanation of how overdoses, addiction, poverty, homelessness, and mental illness would all go down if recreational drugs were supplied on demand.

Queen of Swords

I already knew that drugs have the potential to eat holes into your skull (I did a project on drugs when I was in high school - worked like a charm and I never even smoked a cigarette after that). But what I object to is the idea that it is wrong/weak to take prescription medication. And I'm not really happy with the way the War on Drugs is going either.

Danya

Lady Shea

I saw that show too. All the kids had these hollow eyes. They were mostly homeless and the drugs were all they had to care about.(I think it was the same show)It was very sad. But there were alot of factors that contributed to that situation.

Cricket:
I suffer from this too. Maybe we should start a club. I was late for school and my first 2 jobs every single day by a minimum of 5 minutes. I would say to myself I could make the drive there in 15 minutes...then 10...etc. I was cured when I had to start taking the bus to work. They don't wait for anyone. When I started driving to work again a couple of years later I was semi cured. I make it to work on time but I'm still late everywhere else.

I have read that it is the state of crisis that causes it. Something about it often occuring in adults that grew up with a troubled childhood. They unconsciously sabatage themselves when things are going well because being in crisis mode has been ingrained in their personality. Spending too much, tardiness, and gambling were some things they listed as symptoms. I like that theory since I can blame it all on my mom.

[ March 25, 2002: Message edited by: Danya ]</p>

Pangea

Please forgive me I have come in rather late and would never have found this thread at all if not for Q of S's link from MD. I have read the entire thread and I have heard many good points on both sides. I have enjoyed reading this thread but I can not let this comment go by without responding:

Siren said: Now before I go further, I just want to warn you that this issue is extremely touchy for me. I still have issues with a lot of things that happened in my case and I will probably sound a little less than sympathetic to some of you. And here's why:

In 1999, I and my then boyfriend (we are married now) discovered we were pregnant. I went through the usual doctor visits and while this was happening my BF and I were looking for a place to live (we were living seperately and wished to find a two bedroom place together for the baby).

I had an extremely difficult pregnancy (total bedrest, no sex, no work, no lifting anything over 5 pounds, etc.). At 25 weeks, I went into premature labor and suffered massive vaginal hemmoraging. I was rushed to the hospital where doctors tried to stop the labor. They gave me steroids to help the baby's lungs grow so she could survive outside of my body, but they couldn't stop the labor long enough for that to work. I delivered and she died. At least I got to hold her.

I had lost so much blood, I thought I was going to die too. I didn't know you could lose that much blood and still live. They gave me blood for two days straight (6 bags, so I thank all of you who have donated blood, I am one person you have helped save). I had needles in my arms for days, saline, glucose, blood, pain meds. I was devastated. Can you imagine signing a birth certificate and a death certificate for your child on the same day? I mean WTF? I didn't understand why my baby was dead. I would have gladly given my life for hers, why was I still here and she was gone?

So my doctor (yes, and ob/gyn) put me on Xanax. At the follow up he gave me a prescription for Prozac and gave me a referral to see a psychiatrist. Now read it again:

I don't mean to sound like a grade A total bitch, just as you don't wish to sound condecending in your 'just say no' stance, but how the fuck was my doctor not qualified to prescribe Xanax and Prozac for me? Maybe I am just reacting badly to the sweeping generalization you stated combined with my own experience, but I don't give a goat's tit if you think "regular" doctors are qualified to prescribe these meds or not. I personally am thankful that they can. I hope you can see that while I (and others like me) may not be as resilient as you are, with the help of these "mind altering" prescription drugs, I was able to recover from my ordeal. So yes, there is protocal for Prozac and Xanax and Valium in obstetrics and gynocology just so you know.

/[end rant]

Danya

I'm sorry for your loss. I hope your story helps some people realize they never really know what someone else might be dealing with when they accuse them of popping 'happy pills'.

cricket

What a tragic loss, Pangea.

And what if, after that, you had to wait for months as a "new patient" to get in to see a psychiatrist?

I'm glad your ob/gyn was able to prescribe the meds you needed.