Pyrrho

I am sorry; why is that surprising? You didn't believe that Nazis invented hatred for Jewish people, did you? There is a very long history of Christian hatred for Jewish people, going back to the early days of Christianity; Jewish people are commonly blamed for killing Jesus, as well as rejecting Jesus, despite them being the "chosen people", and many of them supposedly witnessed Jesus' "miracles". The Nazis simply tapped into pre-existing hatred and bigotry. You can even read some anti-Semitic stuff in the plays attributed to Shakespeare.

Christianity is a looney religion, so of course someone who takes it seriously will be well suited for the company of other lunatics. You may have been confused by the fact that there are liberal Christians, who do not take the foundation of their own religion (i.e., the Bible) very seriously. But that, in its way, is even wackier.

("Liberal" Christianity is even wackier, because it basically goes like this: Christianity is true, and we know this because of the Bible; the Bible is not completely and literally accurate, so we should not believe most of what it says. The position itself is essentially self-contradictory.)

Tarnaak

I can not speak for "other" Christian groups. But I'm sure that critisizm is out there.


Sadly, IMHO, there are too many "Christian" groups or denominations, which have widely varying beliefs. Though I do go to a particular church, I consider myself to non-denominational.

I have a good understanding of Scripture, though I am not an expert by any means. But I do look to the Bible as my primary source of inspiration and base my answers to any question relating to "Religion" based on the Bible and the study thereof....

This is one reason I am participating in these Discussion Forums. These actually help me to better understand my faith than "just" doing a "bible study".

Mageth

But I do look to the Bible as my primary source of inspiration and base my answers to any question relating to "Religion" based on the Bible and the study thereof....

This is one reason I am participating in these Discussion Forums. These actually help me to better understand my faith than "just" doing a "bible study".

Well, that's a commendable reason for a theist to be here.

To better understand your faith, and religion in general, you might also want to consider reading/studying other religious texts (e.g. the great Buddhist writings) and books on religion, both specific religions and religion in general. You need to get outside your holy book to gain a better understanding of it.

Sabine Grant

This is of course in your opinion...assuming that christians support ideologies such as the ferment of Hitler's mind is quite a generalization. You do realize that such statements affect people like myself...I take my faith seriously. Therefor I am well suited for the company of individuals who promote the anihilation of other individuals. How prejudicial on your part.

Pyrrho

First of all, Christians did support Hitler; that is simply an historical fact, whether you or anyone else likes it or not. Now, of course, not all Christians supported Hitler. I did not say, in any post, that ALL Christians support Hitler, nor did I ever say that ALL Christians were "extreme right wing Christians". Nor did I ever say that ALL Christians would enjoy the company of right wing neo-Nazis. If you look again at my post that you quoted in part, you may observe that I specifically mention a second, rather broad category of Christians (i.e., "liberal" Christians, as opposed to the "conservative" Christians who were the topic of this thread). And I certainly meant to imply that those "liberal" Christians would NOT approve of such groups as Nazis. Why else would the existence of such "liberal" Christians have "confused" Cipher Girl into thinking that no Christian would want to be with Nazi-like groups? She evidently thought it odd that her acquaintance, being a Christian, would have no problems with Nazi-type groups. Yet he did not have a problem with such groups. So I explained to her that many of the ideas associated with Nazis (e.g., anti-Semitism) pre-dated the Nazi party, and are, in fact, a part of the history of the Christian religion. This is NOT to say that every Christian who ever lived was anti-Semitic; just that it is a significant part of the history of the religion; i.e., many Christians have been anti-Semitic. Given such ideas in many forms of Christianity, there is no incompatibility between many forms of Christianity and being a Nazi.

If you want to examine the thoughts in my posts in this thread, please read them all, in the order that they were posted.

Sabine Grant

PYRRHO : May I suggest that you use the moderating term of " some christians " ...? the comment I brought up to you is quite a generalization expressed the way you did.
" Christianity is a looney religion"... which implies that all individuals who follow that particular religion are therefor part of the looney bunch. " of course anyone who takes it seriously "... I think all christians take their beliefs seriously... which would include this person here. " well suited" another implication loaded with assumptions against each individual who happens to be a christian.
Sorry... your comment is prejudicial and a thorough previous reading of your posts points to your determination to associate christianity to the national socialist ideology.
I think an analysis where your choice of terms does not imply that christianity as a whole can be compared to national socialism as presented and demonstrated by the Third Reich will appear more objective.
The term christianity is used too often to define an entire group of people attributing to each individual within the group intents and thoughts they may not have. That is the root for any prejudicial statement regarding any particular group of people.

Sabine Grant

Maybe I need to give you some facts to help you consider that many christians have ( since the topic involves now comparaison with Hitler's ideology) indeed reacted against the Shoah.
Many during the German occupation sheltered Jews, transported them to Italy or Switzerland, obtained fake IDs for them, fought to the sacrifice of their own lives against the entire nazi system.

I do not know what US history books relate to the american public... but it is a known fact in European countries which suffered thru the nazi invasions and torment of their people that many christians fought .... and I am not talking of a demonstration with banners.....
Unfortunatly in the US, the Constitution protects the right of any individual to express their opinion no matter how offensive and destructive it can be. White supremacist groups are protected by this Constitution. The KKK can express hatred publicaly without any fear of opression of their speech. Arian Nation can pollute the minds of young people thru their web site because the constitution protects their right to express their ideology.
Who is to blame really ? christians who seem to be apathic or the entire american public unwilling to jeopardize their own right of free speech?
Propaganda is one of the strongest recruiting tools used by white supremacist groups... and why? because an entire nation is allowing it.
My pet peeve is the unwillingness of an entire nation to sacrifice some degree of free speech to protect racial minorities from dangerous and criminal ideology.

Cipher Girl

My pet peeve is the unwillingness of an entire nation to sacrifice some degree of free speech to protect racial minorities from dangerous and criminal ideology.

Sabine, you just made my point. You, a christian, simply don't want to talk about the subject, and don't want others to discuss it either. I think getting discussion about racism and bigotry out in the open and lampooning such crazy groups is probably the best way to combat them. Its hard to take someone seriously when everyone is laughing at them.

Hatred grows when no one confronts the racists and bigots. If they wern't allowed to speak out in the open, then they would in secret, and no one would be aware of the danger they pose until it's too late. Ironically, it seems that in this you agree with these groups. They also do not want to see any dissent. I, as an atheist, know far more than you about the dangers of such groups. Having a friend of the family join such a group, and having to work with a coworker who also if not a neonazi, was certainly into the more extreme right-wing christian churches has taught me when to bite my tongue. After all, I don't want to be in the crosshairs of some nut's gunsight, or have my house burned down.

Actually, in the case of the coworker, I confronted him at the office when he started with the drivel that all atheists and gays should be shot. He quickly backed down, as I had correctly read him as a coward. Others in the office (all guys) said I had "balls of steel", after said coworker stormed out of the office.

Sabine, I have repeatedly stated that I do NOT think that all christians are nazis. Are you sure that you have read my posts?

I do not know what US history books relate to the american public... but it is a known fact in European countries which suffered thru the nazi invasions and torment of their people that many christians fought .... and I am not talking of a demonstration with banners.....

Yes, there were a lot of christians who helped the targeted minorities. But a lot more simply stood aside, and let the nazis proceed with the killing or even actively helped. A long history of antisemitism in Europe starting with the Catholic church and continuing with Martin Luther created the environment, primed the ovens so to speak. Like I said earlier, it's a pet peeve of mine that christians seem to ignore when other christians start with the hateful speech. Perhaps if more christians confronted bigotry instead of apologizing for it, then perhaps it would disappear.

Cipher Girl

Hi fatherphil

tell me, what exactly is your definition of a far right conservative christian?

Well I would consider a far right christian one who is a very conservative christian that would like to enforce his/her religion as law. Combining both religion and enforcement by the government. Not conservative in politics but reactionary.

How would you define a far right christian?

fatherphil

i would consider myself a far right Christian, someone who holds to a conservative point of view in a political sense and also has accepted Christ as Lord and Saviour. outside of that i think any further description would require the appropriate adjectives.