Cipher Girl

I was doing a search in Google using "atheist victims holocaust" to find anything about atheists rounded up by the Germans during WW2. Some of the returns were pretty weird and included both right wing christian sites and neo-nazi sites. Just the little bit returned by google was enough to really bum me out.

Most of the returns were both neo-nazi and right wing christian sites. And what was really interesting was that the same things seemed to be said by both types of groups. They really have it in for atheists and jews.

This raises a few questions for me. What exactly is the difference between extremely right wing christianity and nazism? At what point does right wing christianlity turn into nazism? If right wing christianity says exactly the same things as nazism, why then don't they just go ahead and call themselves nazis?

Any thoughts, anyone?

hezekiah jones

Originally posted by Cipher Girl
What exactly is the difference between extremely right wing christianity and nazism?

Right-wing christians don't like the "socialism" part.

Originally posted by Cipher Girl
At what point does right wing christianlity turn into nazism?

Many would say we've already gone past that point.

Originally posted by Cipher Girl
If right wing christianity says exactly the same things as nazism, why then don't they just go ahead and call themselves nazis?

That's a good question. We just might have to start doing it for them.

hezekiah jones

When you say "extreme right-wing christian," I assume you're referring to people like this?

Cipher Girl

Yes, ScripturesForAmerica came up just as frequently as the nazi sites, with the same sorts of rhetoric. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck, then it is a duck as far as I'm concerned. But it seems that the far-right christians think they can say the same sorts of things as nazis, and not be considered as such.

It really makes me sad and frustrated that people buy into such bullshit. I guess they feel so bad about themselves, they look to put others down to elevate themselves.

sakrilege

There is a difference. The Nazis deny any genocide happened in their past. The fundamentalist xians don't deny the genocide that their god did in the OT.

lpetrich

In fact, they sometimes seem proud of the Biblical genocides; they often view these mass murders as noble and just acts.

Which, to me, seems morally worse than many Nazi apologetics.

Sabine Grant

Salut Cipher Girl...I am not here defending at all white supremacist groups such as Arian Nation which claim the Bible as a support to their horrendous ideology. However, national socialism as illustrated by the Third Reich , resulted in affecting all sorts of ethnic and religious groups. For example, if you visit Dachau, the museum which presents archives and statistics on the variety of prisonners in the camp, will reveal that a certain number of evangelicals were also emprisoned along with jews, communists, homosexuals, Russian soldiers, masons, gypsies etc basicaly anyone who challenged and did not abide to nazi ideology.

I thought I would point to the fact that some christians were also victims in the camps to insure that a generalisation of comparing christianity with national socialism does not occur.

The oppression of ethnic groups as well as opponants to nazi ideology can definitly be compared to the oppression US white supremacist groups express in their sites. However,the majority of christians in this country are well aware that christian teachings forbid their ideology.
I would suggest you explore the groups such as communists and masons who were atheists in majority to have a figure as to how many atheists were also victims.
Masons in France for example had to go " underground " under the Vichy Government ( my father was one). Jean Moulin, head of the Resistance, was a mason and probably an atheist.

Any time we deal with any " extreme wing" from the right or the left, we have to expect oppression. The same phenomenon occured with marxism which was twisted to serve the purpose of dictatorships in the ex soviet Union when good ol' Karl had humanistic intentions in his writings. At least his purpose was to promote a better society with equality for all.
The Bible is being exploited by unscrupulous individuals who see an opportunity to use the concept of God as the supreme authority which commands and supports their criminal ideology.
Also to respond to a comment that christians defend the OT crimes as noble acts.... careful with generalizations again. I belong to a trend of christians who does not swear to the validity of OT scriptures and considers that false claims have been made by some of the authors to serve their own purpose by attributing their own writings to a " god inspired word" in order to control masses.
It is revolting to me when I become aware of the KKK invoquing God as the authority who commands their crimes.

Spaz

Yes, extreme right-wing christians are fucking nazis. I'm sure if they had access to what hitler had access to much the same thing would be happening.

Stephen Maturin

Now there's a seriously disturbed individual. From the linked page:

Would that he were the only one of these nutburgers running around. Even more lamentable are the social and economic conditions that breed audiences susceptible to such messages, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.

Cipher Girl

Hi Sabine

However, national socialism as illustrated by the Third Reich , resulted in affecting all sorts of ethnic and religious groups.

Ditto for many extreme right wing christian groups here in the US. Though they seem to favor religous bigotry over racial bigotry, even though for a lot of the groups there seems to be enough of both.

For example, if you visit Dachau, the museum which presents archives and statistics on the variety of prisonners in the camp, will reveal that a certain number of evangelicals were also emprisoned along with jews, communists, homosexuals, Russian soldiers, masons, gypsies etc basicaly anyone who challenged and did not abide to nazi ideology.

I thought I would point to the fact that some christians were also victims in the camps to insure that a generalisation of comparing christianity with national socialism does not occur.

Well at least here in the US, far right christian groups are more than happy to hate more liberal forms of christianity than themselves. In that they are no different than the nazis who imprisoned any one who did not cooperate, even if they were christian as well.

However,the majority of christians in this country are well aware that christian teachings forbid their ideology.
I would suggest you explore the groups such as communists and masons who were atheists in majority to have a figure as to how many atheists were also victims.
Masons in France for example had to go " underground " under the Vichy Government ( my father was one). Jean Moulin, head of the Resistance, was a mason and probably an atheist.

I don't know about masons in Europe, but here in the US almost all masons either are christian or have some god belief. I think atheists are not allowed.

Any time we deal with any " extreme wing" from the right or the left, we have to expect oppression. The same phenomenon occured with marxism which was twisted to serve the purpose of dictatorships in the ex soviet Union when good ol' Karl had humanistic intentions in his writings. At least his purpose was to promote a better society with equality for all.
The Bible is being exploited by unscrupulous individuals who see an opportunity to use the concept of God as the supreme authority which commands and supports their criminal ideology.

I agree, any form of government where there are no checks and balances, with protections for minorities, leaves itself vulnerable to abuse.

I did not say that all christians subscribe to such views, only a small minority. But that minority is sure determined to get as much political power as they can, especially by subterfuge.

This sounds just like a nazi to me.