saraja

None of the Bible’s Writers Believed That Jesus is God
Christians and Muslims both believe in Jesus, love him, and honor him. They are, however, divided over the question of his divinity. Fortunately, this difference can be resolved if we refer the question to both the Bible and the Quran, because, both the Bible and the Quran teach that Jesus is not God.

To read more please visit this site:

IS THE BIBLE GODS WORD?
http://www.jamaat.net/bible/Bible1-3.html

The Bible - A Closer Look!
http://www.todayislam.com/bible.htm

A List of Biblical Contradictions
http://sultan.org/articles/biblecon.txt

http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-10-1.htm

schu

The skeptics here already know that Jesus isn't god and the bible isn't the word of a god. Heck we even know that God isn't god. Do you have a point?

Sabine Grant

Bonjour Saraja ! welcome to the forum! since there are not only skeptics who are members of this forum, I can understand the point you are making. I will get back to you with more comments on your post later. A tout a l'heure ! Veronique.

saraja

God revealed a holy book to Jesus called the Injeel, some parts of which may be still available in the teachings of God to Jesus in the New Testament. But this does not mean that Muslims believe in the Bible we have today because it is not the original scriptures that were revealed by God. They underwent alterations, additions, and omissions. This was also said by the Committee charged with revising The Holy Bible (Revised Standard Version). This Committee consisted of thirty-two scholars who served as members of the Committee. They secured the review and counsel of an Advisory Board of fifty representatives of the co-operating denominations. The Committee said in the Preface to The Holy Bible (Revised Standard Version), p. iv, “Sometimes it is evident that the text has suffered in transmission, but none of the versions provides a satisfactory restoration. Here we can only follow the best judgment of competent scholars as to the most probable reconstruction of the original text.” The Committee also said in the Preface, p. vii, “Notes are added which indicate significant variations, additions, or omissions in the ancient authorities (Mt 9.34; Mk 3.16; 7.4; Lk 24.32, 51, etc.).”
For more in-depth articles regarding this subject, please visit the following external web pages: Confessions of the New American Bible and Bible Contradictions.

http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch3-16-1.htm

The Bible Denies the Divinity of Jesus

Jesus is Not Son of God According to the Bible and the Quran

Jesus in the Holy Quran

Was Jesus God and Man at the Same Time?

The Truth About Jesus

The Return of Jesus to Earth

IS THE BIBLE GODS WORD?
http://www.jamaat.net/bible/Bible1-3.html

The Bible - A Closer Look!
http://www.todayislam.com/bible.htm

A List of Biblical Contradictions
http://sultan.org/articles/biblecon.txt

THE REAL STORY OF MARY
http://geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/3001/storyofmary.htm


Christ in Islam
http://home2.swipnet.se/~w-20479/Christ.htm

THE TRUTH ABOUT JESUS
http://sultan.org/articles/Jesus.html

Who Was Jesus According to Jesus?
http://www.islaminfo.com

wade-w

I think this is better suited for BC&A

Haran

Did you know, Saraja, that parts of the Quran are probably based on late Christian legends, such as the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, among others which happened to be circulating in Arabia at the time of Muhammad?

Saraja, do you know anything about the study of textual criticism? Do you know of any good books on the textual criticism of the Quran (which might list the most ancient copies of the Quran - assuming there is no original anymore, etc.)?

Thanks

dost

Hello Haran.

Just thought I'd make a short reply to your posting.

You wrote:

"Did you know, Saraja, that parts of the Quran are probably based on late Christian legends, such as the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, among others which happened to be circulating in Arabia at the time of Muhammad? "

I think that these type of allegations were first launched by the Christian polemicist, the Rev. Tisdall , whose book (think its called "Sources of the Quran") is available online on some website. This is not considered a particularly reliable book, anyway, he himself states:

"The style of the Arabic of this apocryphal Gospel, (Gospel Of The Infancy) however, is so bad that it is hardly possible to believe that it dates from Muhammad's time. "

The above citation I extracted from: http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Qur...s/BBbible.html

A very detailed analysis of these alleged sources is to be found here which may interest you: http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/

You also wrote:

"Saraja, do you know anything about the study of textual criticism? Do you know of any good books on the textual criticism of the Quran (which might list the most ancient copies of the Quran - assuming there is no original anymore, etc.)? "

I personally do not know of any book that is devoted to the study of ancient manuscripts of the Quran as I have never bothered looking for one. But many manuscripts, dating from the first century of Islam and later, are to be found here:

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Mss/

This site has details of scholarly papers and references that discuss the manuscripts and the script etc. Hope its of some use to you.

Also ancient inscriptions:

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/His.../Inscriptions/

Ancient Papyri:

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Papyri/

Furthermore, most books on the Quran, that deal with issues such as variant readings etc., are unfortunately in Arabic. A few are available in English that you may find of some use:

1) Abu Ammaar Yasir Qadhi, "An Introduction to the sciences of the Quran" Al-Hidayah publishers. Good book for beginners.

2) Ahmad Ali al Imam, "Variant Readings of the Quran: A Critical Study of their Historical and Linguistic Origins". Another good book, however difficult to follow if you are unfamiliar with the basics.

sincerely

dost.

godfry n. glad

Those with an interest in the development of the Quran, and/or the historicity of Muhammad, might be interested in the following:

_The Origins of the Koran: Classic Essays on Islam's Holy Book_

and

_Quest for the Historical Muhammad_

both are edited by Ibn Warraq.

godfry n. glad

Haran

Hello. Good to see a Muslim around here. I'm interested in digging into the textual history of the Quran as well as the history behind it. I've done some reading, but I do not know what are the best scholars (in English) to refer to.

I would be surprised if the parallels were not recognized before Tisdall, but I could be wrong.

As a matter of fact, when I read the Quran for myself (before I had ever heard of Tisdall's work), the story of Jesus forming clay doves and breathing life into them immediately jumped out at me, reminding me of the story in the Infancy Gospel of Thomas. Since I am relatively well-read in the Christian Apocrypha, the Quranic stories of Mary also reminded me of Christian apocrypha (e.g. the Protevangelium of James). The parallels seem to me quite hard to deny.

If this came from the islamic-awareness website, then they overlooked something. The Arabic version of the IGoT may be too late.

However, there are other versions like the Syriac, inter alia, which date back to the 5th and 6th centuries. The actual apocryphal traditions are said by scholars to possibly date back to the late second century (cf. J.K. Elliot/M.R. James or Schneemelcher).

It seems highly likely to me that the Quranic stories about Jesus were borrowed from these "popular" apocryphal gospels of which many had surely made the rounds in Arabia before Mohammad's time.

Thanks for the links. I actually have a link to the Islamic-Awareness site on my website, but either they have expanded since I last looked or I just didn't remember the detail they have. I'll have to peruse the site and see what they have to say.

Thanks again for the sources. I can read a very tiny bit of Arabic, but actually reading a scholarly book in the language would be out of the question.

As for historical sources, I have F.E. Peters' Muhammad and the Origins of Islam. I also have read the popular book on Islam by Karen Armstrong.

Thanks also to godfry for the sources.

If anyone knows of good English works of the textual criticism of the Quran, please let me know. Thanks.

godfry n. glad

You are most welcome. The Ibn Warraq books should be a help. They are collections of essays by historians working in Quranic studies and cite lots of other sources. They are fair starting points.

godfry