GarColga

Are you like me, sick of encountering Psalm 53:1 in internet discussions with Christians?

"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good".

Now I'm no Old Testament scholar, but something seems off with this. It's hard to believe that atheism as we know it was prevalent enough in those days that the writer of this Psalm felt he had to weigh in against it.

Anybody have any idea what this bit of scripture is REALLY about?

lpetrich

My favorite comeback is Matthew 5:22: ... But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell. (NIV)

Wayne Delia

I never get tired of it! It's an opportunity to demonstrate several different logical fallacies in a single Bible verse.

MINI-FAQ: Psalms 53:1

"The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God.' They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that does good."" (Psalms 53:1)

AD HOMINEM FALLACY: An argument is discounted based on attacking the character of the person making the argument. ("He is wrong when he says there is no God, because he is a fool.")

STRAWMAN FALLACY: Arguing against a position by creating a different, weaker, or irrelevant position and refuting that position instead of the original. ("There is no God" misrepresents "There isn't sufficient evidence that God exists.")

CIRCULAR REASONING: The truth of the conclusion is assumed in order to justify the premises. ("The fool says there is no God, because anyone who says there is no God is a fool.")

BEGGING THE QUESTION: The argument creates a secondary proposition that is related to the primary proposition, which requires a similar argument that is missing. (The existence of God is assumed, while addressing propositions of whether God exists.)

FALLACY OF INCONSISTENCY: The argument is inconsistent with other arguments within the same context. (In the Christian context, Jesus commands against the invective in Psalms 53:1, warning that "whoever says 'You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire" in Matthew 5:22.)

SPECIAL PLEADING: The inappropriate attribution of emotive functions to objects that do not have that capability. (Hearts are not capable of "knowing" or of feeling emotions.)

REDUNDANCY: Psalm 14 is identical to Psalm 53.

QUESTIONABLE PREMISE: It is obviously not the case that all atheists do nothing but bad deeds. This premise is invalidated by a single example of an atheist doing a single charitable act.

WMD

mike_decock

That was excellent! Can I plagiarize it for use it in future arguments?

-Mike...

Nectaris

Someone on alt.atheism suggested this response (I can't take credit for it, it was nominated for a post of the month), paraphrased:

If even a fool can recognize that there is no god, why can't you?

I never thought of that response before. . .

GarColga

LOL! You guys, I wasn't really looking for snappy comebacks, though I will doubtless use some of these.

I'm more interested in the scripture itself. What was the cultural context? Why did the psalmist feel there was a need to address people who say there is no god? Who was saying that? Was he talking about people who didn't worship Yahweh, or any god at all?

Fr.Andrew

(Fr Andrew): It may have had to do with a rejection of Yahvism by fellow Israelites. There exists throughout a large part of the OT an undercurrent of doubt that the worship of Yahweh would emerge dominant.
Maybe.

7thangel

To call crazy insane is not ad homeneim if it is intended for evaluation. Else, every doctor who diagnos their patients with such should be sued.

God does not deny the wisdom of men. But the foolishness of atheists refer to lack of knowledge of God.

Matthew 11:25. At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

1 Corinthians 2:5-8
5. That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6. Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7. But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8. Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

So do not take the verse to be just mere words of ignorance.

Wayne Delia

Sure, no problem at all. I also welcome constructive criticism and, if possible, any additional fallacies to add to the list.

WMD

Baidarka

Since I don’t think that quotation marks were used in the original Hebrew how do we know what this means?

The fool hath said in his heart, “There is no God.” Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good,
Or
The fool hath said in his heart, “There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good”

The first seems to mean that atheistic fools are evil.
The second seems to mean that atheistic fools think that every one is evil.
I’m stumped! Can some one clear this up?