Paradisedreams2

Hi everyone,

Its been a long time since I have stopped in how are you all? I need your help, Atheists might be of better help here (I don't know). I read another Christians post on another forum, which concludes that this nation was founded on Christian values. I know, I know, I tried to do a "search" to find the dispute on this one but I could not find it. I'm sure this thought is a well worn one here, but I could certainly use it.Can anyone give a link or help me out here? I will be indebted to your kindness if you can help out here

Kim

philechat

Go to the library in Sec Web, and look under the biographies section under "historical". You shuold find something like "the religious beliefs of Founding Fathers" and similar materials.

Philechat--definitely NOT American

Mad Kally

<a href="http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/xian.html" target="_blank"> Is America a Christian Nation? </a>

hezekiah jones

<a href="http://www.findlaw.com/casecode/constitution/" target="_blank">Findlaw's Annotated U.S. Constitution</a>

Keyword search terms:
"Christian"
"Christ"
"Jesus"
"God"
"Values"
"Bible"
"Moses"
"Commandments"
etc.

Other keyword search terms:
"Congress shall make"
"no law"
"respecting an"
"establishment of religion"
"no"
"religious test"
"incorporation"
"of"
"First Amendment"
etc.

Paradisedreams2

Philechat , Mad Kally , hezekiahjones,

Hey thank you all for giving me a hand here, it must have been my wording on the internet search as well as searching here on Sec web, I was sure there was an argument on here somewhere... I just hate it when ya can't find the darn thing lol!

Your the best!
<img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

Kim

Godless Dave

People throw that assertion around all the time but they never back it up and say which Christian principles our nation was founded on.

Challenge them to find any of these principles in the Bible:

Government rules with the consent of the governed.

The government should be composed of representatives elected by the citizens.

The government should be divided into three independent branches - legistative, judicial, and executive.

Citizens have the right to private property. The government cannot seize private property without a good reason and due process of law.

The government can't jail anyone or otherwise deprive them of their liberties without due process of law.

Freedom of speech.

Freedom of religion.

The right to keep and bear arms.

The right to a speedy trial by a jury of one's peers.

Now, which of those principles has a basis in Christianity? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Gooch's dad

One book that I really like on this subject is "The Godless Constitution" by Kramnick and Moore.

It does a good job of puncturing the modern right-wing myth that America has gone 'downhill' from being a Christian nation, to recently forcing the separation of church and state.

There is a useful section on the ratification debate in various states--in 1788-89, during the ratification process, many states proposed changes to the Constitution to add Christianity. One such effort was a 'Christian preamble'.

All such efforts were voted down.

-Kelly

Gar

I'd say that the US was founded on the principles of John Locke before Jesus Christ. John Locke wrote a lot about the natural rights of man and so on. Look him up if you want. In an ideal the nation is what the majority wants it to be, so the United States may well have been a "Christian nation" in the past simply because the majority of its inhabitants were christians. Unfortunately for the fundys that isn't the case today.

Gar

typo:

...in a democracy the nation is...

Paradisedreams2

Godless Dave , Gooch's dad and Gar,

Thanks alot for your replies I needed a little "ammo" I knew existed somewhere lol!

Thanks again to all of you!

Kim