Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Cozmoe · 06-14-2002, 11:39 AM

First, check <a href="http://www.qctimes.com/search/story.php?file=/rednews/2002/06/01/stories/afternoon_edition/story49.txt&szKeywords=" target="_blank">this</a> out.

I realize it's kind of old news but I bring it up for two reasons. One: I live in Iowa and grew up in Davenport; and two: I noticed a new member to the board, Melissa, says she is a High School student from Davenport.

So I'm wondering, Melissa, what's your perspective on this? Do you go to one of these schools? Do you know any of these students?

I know you're new here and I'm sorry to put you on the spot, but... You're on!

[ June 14, 2002: Message edited by: Cozmoe ]

Cozmoe · 06-14-2002, 11:46 AM

Of course, all other comments are welcome too.

[ June 14, 2002: Message edited by: Cozmoe ]

Godless Dave · 06-14-2002, 11:53 AM

If the article's accurate, then I'm with the students. School administrators who can't understand the first amendment make us look bad.

Bill Snedden · 06-14-2002, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Godless Dave:
School administrators who can't understand the first amendment make us look bad.

I heartily concur. The First Amendment certainly does protect the students' right to distribute these materials during times when it doesn't disrupt classes or studying. They are asking no more.

The entire issue seems like such a no-brainer to me. Why do so many school officials seem to have such problems with it?

Regards,

Bill Snedden

[ June 14, 2002: Message edited by: Bill Snedden ]

crazyfingers · 06-14-2002, 03:05 PM

It's just a guess but I suspect that the vast majority of local school administrators have never had training on the law. Most often that means that they promote their own religion. Sometimes they discourage religion. They should have nothing to do with religion one way or the other.

I was told about an ACLU case once where the ACLU sued a school when the school passed out bibles. The school did an about face and prohibited kids from bringing their own to school. So the ACLU sued them again.

You�re right Bill, it�s really not that hard to understand if people would just turn their brains on.

Melissa 2 · 06-14-2002, 06:21 PM

*jaw drops* You have no idea how freaky it was for me to come home halfway disoriented (work does that to you :\) and see this topic's title. I seriously thought there was some massive riot or something going on at one of our high schools! *seizure fit*

Ok, done with that, now we get a bit of background info about me. I really do go to West High School, which is one of the schools that refused to let the Bibles/fliers be distributed. I don't know Becky Swope, though. WHS has almost 3000 students, so I probably haven't even heard of half the students that go there, let alone actually meet them. And she's a grade ahead of me, which limits my chances of meeting her even more, since she'd be taking different classes...Getting waay off topic, sorry ^^

I agree with Dave and Bill, though. The students apparently weren't disrupting classtime when they wanted to hand out their info, so I really don't see why they weren't allowed to. It's not like they were shoving fliers into students' faces during the middle of classes (I've had people actually do that to me before).

I don't know the specifics of the whole 'Distribution of Printed Materials' policy. But if the policy really does "prohibit the distribution of religious materials on school grounds before, during and after the school day or school activity", then both it and the ruling seem unconstitutional to me.

What I find more interesting is that people handed out copies of the New Testament several times after school last year, and nobody objected then. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Cozmoe · 06-14-2002, 06:47 PM

Sorry to freak you out there Mel.

I was just trying to get some inside dirt on the whole deal. I graduated Central High class of '88 so there's no way I'm gonna know anybody there.

I also agree that the policy is unconstitutional. Either ban distribution of ALL material or allow it with certain guidelines. It shouldn't matter if it's secular or religious. I think most of us God-hating communist heathens agree that while we don't want to see any special privileges for religious speech, we don't want to see any special restrictions either.

Ironically over on the Baptist Board there was a lively debate about this. Many felt that the ban on religious mater was a good thing because it prevents all that dangerous Wiccan and (!gasp!) Islamic materials from being distributed.

Go figure.

GaryP · 06-14-2002, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Melissa:

What I find more interesting is that people handed out copies of the New Testament several times after school last year, and nobody objected then. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

If those people were not students,and it happened on school grounds, someone probably should have complained.

crazyfingers · 06-14-2002, 07:05 PM

Hi Melissa,

Here is a document from the <a href="http://www.ed.gov/Speeches/08-1995/religion.html" target="_blank">UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION </a> on what is and is not legal regarding religion in public schools.

You could help to salvage this situation, assuming the situation is as described, by helping to educate people on what the law and the constitution really says.

Are you "out" as an atheist at school? An atheist siding with religious freedom would leave a very good impression among your peers and educate them on how important secularism and C-S separation really is.

Just an idea.

06-14-2002, 11:39 AM	#1
Cozmoe Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Iowa Posts: 43	Attn: Melissa. Davenport School Brewhaha First, check <a href="http://www.qctimes.com/search/story.php?file=/rednews/2002/06/01/stories/afternoon_edition/story49.txt&szKeywords=" target="_blank">this</a> out. I realize it's kind of old news but I bring it up for two reasons. One: I live in Iowa and grew up in Davenport; and two: I noticed a new member to the board, Melissa, says she is a High School student from Davenport. So I'm wondering, Melissa, what's your perspective on this? Do you go to one of these schools? Do you know any of these students? I know you're new here and I'm sorry to put you on the spot, but... You're on! [ June 14, 2002: Message edited by: Cozmoe ]</p>

06-14-2002, 11:46 AM	#2
Cozmoe Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Iowa Posts: 43	Of course, all other comments are welcome too. [ June 14, 2002: Message edited by: Cozmoe ]</p>

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06-14-2002, 11:53 AM	#3
Godless Dave Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: With 10,000 lakes who needs a coast? Posts: 10,762	If the article's accurate, then I'm with the students. School administrators who can't understand the first amendment make us look bad.

06-14-2002, 03:05 PM	#5
crazyfingers Contributor Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 13,699	It's just a guess but I suspect that the vast majority of local school administrators have never had training on the law. Most often that means that they promote their own religion. Sometimes they discourage religion. They should have nothing to do with religion one way or the other. I was told about an ACLU case once where the ACLU sued a school when the school passed out bibles. The school did an about face and prohibited kids from bringing their own to school. So the ACLU sued them again. You�re right Bill, it�s really not that hard to understand if people would just turn their brains on.

06-14-2002, 06:21 PM	#6
Melissa 2 Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: D-port, IA Posts: 8	jaw drops You have no idea how freaky it was for me to come home halfway disoriented (work does that to you :\) and see this topic's title. I seriously thought there was some massive riot or something going on at one of our high schools! seizure fit Ok, done with that, now we get a bit of background info about me. I really do go to West High School, which is one of the schools that refused to let the Bibles/fliers be distributed. I don't know Becky Swope, though. WHS has almost 3000 students, so I probably haven't even heard of half the students that go there, let alone actually meet them. And she's a grade ahead of me, which limits my chances of meeting her even more, since she'd be taking different classes...Getting waay off topic, sorry ^^ I agree with Dave and Bill, though. The students apparently weren't disrupting classtime when they wanted to hand out their info, so I really don't see why they weren't allowed to. It's not like they were shoving fliers into students' faces during the middle of classes (I've had people actually do that to me before). I don't know the specifics of the whole 'Distribution of Printed Materials' policy. But if the policy really does "prohibit the distribution of religious materials on school grounds before, during and after the school day or school activity", then both it and the ruling seem unconstitutional to me. What I find more interesting is that people handed out copies of the New Testament several times after school last year, and nobody objected then. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

06-14-2002, 06:47 PM	#7
Cozmoe Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Iowa Posts: 43	Sorry to freak you out there Mel. I was just trying to get some inside dirt on the whole deal. I graduated Central High class of '88 so there's no way I'm gonna know anybody there. I also agree that the policy is unconstitutional. Either ban distribution of ALL material or allow it with certain guidelines. It shouldn't matter if it's secular or religious. I think most of us God-hating communist heathens agree that while we don't want to see any special privileges for religious speech, we don't want to see any special restrictions either. Ironically over on the Baptist Board there was a lively debate about this. Many felt that the ban on religious mater was a good thing because it prevents all that dangerous Wiccan and (!gasp!) Islamic materials from being distributed. Go figure.

06-14-2002, 07:05 PM	#9
crazyfingers Contributor Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 13,699	Hi Melissa, Here is a document from the <a href="http://www.ed.gov/Speeches/08-1995/religion.html" target="_blank">UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION </a> on what is and is not legal regarding religion in public schools. You could help to salvage this situation, assuming the situation is as described, by helping to educate people on what the law and the constitution really says. Are you "out" as an atheist at school? An atheist siding with religious freedom would leave a very good impression among your peers and educate them on how important secularism and C-S separation really is. Just an idea.

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