Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Writer@Large · 06-26-2002, 12:57 PM

I've seen so much vitrol, so much *hatred* and anger on the news in the last hour ... am I the only one feeling a little put out by my own country? Are people, when it comes down to it, really this ignorant and disgusting and tactless?

--W@L

[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Writer@Large ]

Bad Religion · 06-26-2002, 12:59 PM

Toto: Thanks...I knew I had read that somewhere.

The Dionysian · 06-26-2002, 01:01 PM

Honestly, if one is an atheist why can't they just not say the pledge. It's already been established that one cannot be forced to say the pledge so who cares? It seems atheists get offended because people believe in god and religious people get offended that people don't believe in god. If you hear the pledge said in a school how is this forcing religion on you? You don't have to say it. Now I'm sure I'll get flamed for this and be labelled a fundie. I assure you I'm not a fundie of any kind and I'm not christian. Hell, I'm not even religious but I'm not so militantly anti-religion that I can't stand when people profess their belief.

Toto · 06-26-2002, 01:01 PM

I guess this shows why Newdow was acting only for himself and didn't have any of the Atheist organizations behind him.

I have read the criticism of Roe v. Wade - that it was imposed judicially before the country was ready for it, and it provoked the counter-action that has culminated in the ascendence of the religious right.

Anunnaki · 06-26-2002, 01:04 PM

I think the Godless Americans march is going to face a MUCH more hostile public than it would have before todays court ruling.

I can`t go becuse it happens to be on the same day I get back in MA from Amsterdam. Maybe it`s a good thing I can`t go to the march since I don`t own a helmet and riot gear.

Berenger Sauniere · 06-26-2002, 01:08 PM

Looooooooong Ovvvvvvvver Duuuuuuuue!!! This should have been dealt with in the 1950s. Eat sh*t Eisenhower (posthumously of course).

Stabby- · 06-26-2002, 01:12 PM

Quote:

that it was imposed judicially before the country was ready for it, and it provoked the counter-action that has culminated in the ascendence of the religious right.

How do you determine when a country is "ready" for anything. Progress is made by dragging the kicking and screaming along.

Today we witnessed progresion.

Stabby------------------

Bluenose · 06-26-2002, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TPaine:
Honestly, if one is an atheist why can't they just not say the pledge. It's already been established that one cannot be forced to say the pledge so who cares? It seems atheists get offended because people believe in god and religious people get offended that people don't believe in god. If you hear the pledge said in a school how is this forcing religion on you? You don't have to say it. Now I'm sure I'll get flamed for this and be labelled a fundie. I assure you I'm not a fundie of any kind and I'm not christian. Hell, I'm not even religious but I'm not so militantly anti-religion that I can't stand when people profess their belief.

This case was NOT about us adults.
The good doctor was worried about his little girl (8yo IIRC) and the government pressure to conform, etc.

Grumpy · 06-26-2002, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TPaine:
Honestly, if one is an atheist why can't they just not say the pledge. It's already been established that one cannot be forced to say the pledge so who cares?

It's a question of Congress overstepping its powers. In the opinion of the 9th Circuit Appeals panel, they did just so in 1954. It's been entirely obvious to freethinkers that the "under God" act was a flagrant 1st Amendment violation. As today's ruling clearly states, it would have been just as bad to say "one nation under Zeus."

W@L, I know what you mean. Much mouth-frothing and handle-flying abounds. I heard Rush Limbaugh state that the Supreme Court will overturn today's ruling, apparently on factual grounds. Because we are, in fact, one nation under God. My friend said he heard Sean Hannity spouting off about how Jesus wrote the Constitution.

Six pages of replies two hours after the bulletin. Wow!

The Dionysian · 06-26-2002, 01:14 PM

"This case was NOT about us adults.
The good doctor was worried about his little girl (8yo IIRC) and the government pressure to conform, etc."

But the court has already ruled that one does not have to say the pledge. Where is this pressure?

06-26-2002, 12:57 PM	#131
Writer@Large Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 7,198	I've seen so much vitrol, so much hatred and anger on the news in the last hour ... am I the only one feeling a little put out by my own country? Are people, when it comes down to it, really this ignorant and disgusting and tactless? --W@L [ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Writer@Large ]</p>

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06-26-2002, 12:59 PM	#132
Bad Religion Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: memphis, tn. usa Posts: 127	Toto: Thanks...I knew I had read that somewhere.

06-26-2002, 01:01 PM	#133
The Dionysian Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: who knows Posts: 154	Honestly, if one is an atheist why can't they just not say the pledge. It's already been established that one cannot be forced to say the pledge so who cares? It seems atheists get offended because people believe in god and religious people get offended that people don't believe in god. If you hear the pledge said in a school how is this forcing religion on you? You don't have to say it. Now I'm sure I'll get flamed for this and be labelled a fundie. I assure you I'm not a fundie of any kind and I'm not christian. Hell, I'm not even religious but I'm not so militantly anti-religion that I can't stand when people profess their belief.

06-26-2002, 01:01 PM	#134
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	I guess this shows why Newdow was acting only for himself and didn't have any of the Atheist organizations behind him. I have read the criticism of Roe v. Wade - that it was imposed judicially before the country was ready for it, and it provoked the counter-action that has culminated in the ascendence of the religious right.

06-26-2002, 01:04 PM	#135
Anunnaki Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: I`ve left and gone away Posts: 699	I think the Godless Americans march is going to face a MUCH more hostile public than it would have before todays court ruling. I can`t go becuse it happens to be on the same day I get back in MA from Amsterdam. Maybe it`s a good thing I can`t go to the march since I don`t own a helmet and riot gear.

06-26-2002, 01:08 PM	#136
Berenger Sauniere Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: et in Arcadia ego... Posts: 406	Looooooooong Ovvvvvvvver Duuuuuuuue!!! This should have been dealt with in the 1950s. Eat sh*t Eisenhower (posthumously of course).

06-26-2002, 01:14 PM	#140
The Dionysian Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: who knows Posts: 154	"This case was NOT about us adults. The good doctor was worried about his little girl (8yo IIRC) and the government pressure to conform, etc." But the court has already ruled that one does not have to say the pledge. Where is this pressure?

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