Freethought & Rationalism Archive

S2Focus · 04-17-2002, 01:38 PM

If you head on over to <a href="http://www.arn.org/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=13" target="_blank">http://www.arn.org/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=13</a> , you'll see a thread entitled "Dispensing with Hypotheticals...." where Dembski unmasks the vast anti-ID conspiracy within the mainstream scientific community...

<img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" />

[ April 17, 2002: Message edited by: S2Focus ]

hezekiah jones · 04-18-2002, 02:37 PM

Very amusing reading.

He's started an additional thread as well. I don't think he's doing his cause (whatever it is) much good.

pseudobug · 04-18-2002, 03:39 PM

Those were a couple of interesting threads--particularly if they were really initiated by Dembski.

What I find interesting is the implication by "Dembski" that ID has nothing at all to do with "creationism".

In a matter of 30 seconds, I found these two quotes attributed to Dembski from<a href="http://sunflower.com/~jkrebs/JCCC/02%20Quotes_from_Slides.pdf" target="_blank">this link.</a>:

Quote:

William Dembski: National Religious Broadcasters meeting, February 2000
"Design opens the whole possibility of us being created in the image of a benevolent God.�The job
of apologetics is to clear the ground, to clear obstacles that prevent people from coming to the
knowledge of Christ.,�And if there's anything that I think has blocked the growth of Christ as the free
reign of the Spirit and people accepting the Scripture and Jesus Christ, it is the Darwinian naturalistic
view.�

11) William Dembski: Touchstone Magazine, July/August 1999
�The world is a mirror representing the divine life�Intelligent design readily embraces the sacramental
nature of physical reality. Indeed, intelligent design is just the Logos theology of John's Gospel
restated in the idiom of information theory.�

Also the following beaut from<a href="http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/scar_d.htm" target="_blank">this site:</a>:

Quote:

Any view of the sciences that leaves Christ out of the picture must be seen as fundamentally deficient.
-- William Dembski, Intelligent Design: The Bridge between Science and Theology (1999), p. 298, quoted from Victor J. Stenger, Has Science Found God? (draft: 2001)

If he (Dembski) really said this in, he evidently has a bad memory and is "confused" about the ID movement's objectives.

Perhaps it is time for some good old fashioned "quote mining" and presentation to the ARN yahoos?

[ April 18, 2002: Message edited by: pseudobug ]

Wyrdsmyth · 04-18-2002, 03:51 PM

Yeah, I think you ought to post those quotes over there. Maybe that really isn't Dembski, just someone using his name. If it really is Dembski, it sounds like he has some explaining to do... How exactly did he imply that ID theory has nothing to do with creationism?

[ April 18, 2002: Message edited by: Wyrdsmyth ]

Lizard · 04-18-2002, 04:04 PM

Apparently, it really is Dembski. He's posted a long "program" of the MPC program Barb Forrest "et al." supposedly quashed. Somebody at ARN said only one invited participant decided to back out, and in another post said the whole thing was "endangered" by her informing scientists and philosophers of what they were walking into. Huh?

Whining about something that occurred two years ago seems odd, to say the least. Also pathetic. See the NCSE's current "Reports" (some articles may be online at <a href="http://www.ncseweb.org," target="_blank">www.ncseweb.org,</a> I haven't checked) for a comprehensive refutation of everything the DI and its operatives have put out re: the WGBH/PBS "Evolution" series, etc. (which will be re-broadcast in May, in case you missed it, though I think the current "The Shape of Life" PBS series is better).

Wells et al. are looking worse and worse. Ken Miller has a web page specifically dedicated to debunking Wells and proving he's a liar. Good reading. I can't find the URL at the moment. It's just been made public. Can someone post it?

Thanx.

[ April 18, 2002: Message edited by: Lizard ]

hezekiah jones · 04-18-2002, 04:11 PM

I'd like to know what the hell's the difference between the "Wedge strategy" and the "Wedge document." Dembski claims to have done his "level best" to disassociate himself from the "document" but he's clearly excessively entangled in the "strategy."

And what in Barbara Forrest's letter is not true? Nothing - it's all factual. 120+ responses to his post and not one challenge to anything she wrote. However plenty of extremely articulate and incisive criticism of the ID "movement."

I wonder if Dembski is sorry he started that thread. It's making him look awfully petty. For a man supposedly working overtime to extract himself from the political wing of ID, referring to an entirely factual document as "the worst sort of leftist guilt-by-association diatribe" is not exactly furthering his cause.

Clutch · 04-18-2002, 05:18 PM

About eight months before I noticed WD really exploding among the fundies, I remember a friend telling me about this guy he kept meeting at natural theology conferences, who was always telling these Ancient Mariner stories about how he was being denied a job because of the atheist conspiracy in universities. Yep, you guessed who. I think the conspiracy attitude evinced on those threads probably stems from Billy's sense that the nasty atheists recognized his brilliance, feared it, and tried to deny him his destiny.

tgamble · 04-18-2002, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lizard:

Wells et al. are looking worse and worse. Ken Miller has a web page specifically dedicated to debunking Wells and proving he's a liar. Good reading. I can't find the URL at the moment. It's just been made public. Can someone post it?

Thanx.

[ April 18, 2002: Message edited by: Lizard ]

<a href="http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/index.html</a>

hezekiah jones · 04-18-2002, 05:45 PM

At last, the Voice of Reason:

Quote:

Mr. Dembski,

You mentioned the "Templeton Foundation". That "foundation" should be avoided like the plague. Ecumenism in its worst and most all-embracing form. Accepting money from that foundation, for a Christian, would be like Elijah accepting a stipend from the prophets of Baal for "progress in religion". I pray that you discern the danger.

In Christ,

Guess who.

wdog · 04-19-2002, 07:54 AM

I hate arn, because I dislike all those blokes who just keep pounding out the same drool about SLOT over and over again. sometimes I lose faith in people...

04-17-2002, 01:38 PM	#1
S2Focus Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: 1162 easy freeway minutes from the new ICR in TX Posts: 896	Dembski cranks up the flame-thrower over at ARN If you head on over to <a href="http://www.arn.org/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=13" target="_blank">http://www.arn.org/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=13</a> , you'll see a thread entitled "Dispensing with Hypotheticals...." where Dembski unmasks the vast anti-ID conspiracy within the mainstream scientific community... <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" /> [ April 17, 2002: Message edited by: S2Focus ]</p>

04-18-2002, 03:51 PM	#4
Wyrdsmyth Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Sarver, PA, USA Posts: 920	Yeah, I think you ought to post those quotes over there. Maybe that really isn't Dembski, just someone using his name. If it really is Dembski, it sounds like he has some explaining to do... How exactly did he imply that ID theory has nothing to do with creationism? [ April 18, 2002: Message edited by: Wyrdsmyth ]</p>

04-18-2002, 04:04 PM	#5
Lizard Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kansas Posts: 169	Apparently, it really is Dembski. He's posted a long "program" of the MPC program Barb Forrest "et al." supposedly quashed. Somebody at ARN said only one invited participant decided to back out, and in another post said the whole thing was "endangered" by her informing scientists and philosophers of what they were walking into. Huh? Whining about something that occurred two years ago seems odd, to say the least. Also pathetic. See the NCSE's current "Reports" (some articles may be online at <a href="http://www.ncseweb.org," target="_blank">www.ncseweb.org,</a> I haven't checked) for a comprehensive refutation of everything the DI and its operatives have put out re: the WGBH/PBS "Evolution" series, etc. (which will be re-broadcast in May, in case you missed it, though I think the current "The Shape of Life" PBS series is better). Wells et al. are looking worse and worse. Ken Miller has a web page specifically dedicated to debunking Wells and proving he's a liar. Good reading. I can't find the URL at the moment. It's just been made public. Can someone post it? Thanx. [ April 18, 2002: Message edited by: Lizard ]</p>

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04-18-2002, 02:37 PM	#2
hezekiah jones Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: WI Posts: 4,357	Very amusing reading. He's started an additional thread as well. I don't think he's doing his cause (whatever it is) much good.

04-18-2002, 04:11 PM	#6
hezekiah jones Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: WI Posts: 4,357	I'd like to know what the hell's the difference between the "Wedge strategy" and the "Wedge document." Dembski claims to have done his "level best" to disassociate himself from the "document" but he's clearly excessively entangled in the "strategy." And what in Barbara Forrest's letter is not true? Nothing - it's all factual. 120+ responses to his post and not one challenge to anything she wrote. However plenty of extremely articulate and incisive criticism of the ID "movement." I wonder if Dembski is sorry he started that thread. It's making him look awfully petty. For a man supposedly working overtime to extract himself from the political wing of ID, referring to an entirely factual document as "the worst sort of leftist guilt-by-association diatribe" is not exactly furthering his cause.

04-18-2002, 05:18 PM	#7
Clutch Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 3,751	About eight months before I noticed WD really exploding among the fundies, I remember a friend telling me about this guy he kept meeting at natural theology conferences, who was always telling these Ancient Mariner stories about how he was being denied a job because of the atheist conspiracy in universities. Yep, you guessed who. I think the conspiracy attitude evinced on those threads probably stems from Billy's sense that the nasty atheists recognized his brilliance, feared it, and tried to deny him his destiny.

04-19-2002, 07:54 AM	#10
wdog Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 1,547	I hate arn, because I dislike all those blokes who just keep pounding out the same drool about SLOT over and over again. sometimes I lose faith in people...

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