Starboy

I did this just to see what they would look like if they were stated as games. Please feel free to add or subtract or comment on any of the rules.

Science as a game -

Initial conditions: The players are given the ability to survive, communicate and have created and maintain a culture. They know little of the inner workings of their surroundings. Their culture gives them a worldview that they use to fit together what knowledge they posses of their surroundings.

Rules of the Game:
1. It is played in groups. A group can be as large as all the players and as small as one player. Groups are dynamic and change size constantly as players pursue changing interests.
2. All players are called scientists.
3. Any scientist is allowed to ask a question. Any question they wish. The questions may be informed by the worldview of that particular scientist. The scientist may communicate this question to other scientists if they so wish. Those questions that interest enough scientists may be recorded in the scientific culture.
4. Any scientist is allowed to make observations. They may attempt to make them part of scientific culture, but before they are accepted as such, other scientists must confirm the observations of the original scientist and they must be reviewed by the more respected players (scientists) in the game. Knowledge created in this way is called scientific knowledge. At any time any number of the scientists may consider previously created scientific knowledge as suspect. It can be considered suspect for any number of reasons, not the least of which is no one can reproduce it. If enough scientists are so disposed, the suspect knowledge is stricken from the base of scientific knowledge.
5. Any scientist is allowed to guess an answer for any question posed. They can use any inspiration they wish in guessing the answer. In order for a guess to be considered a scientific theory by the other players is must satisfy the following:
a. It must be possible to test the theory in some way. The theory must not only predict what can happen but it must also be able to predict what cannot happen.
b. The theory must be able to predict some if not all of the current scientific knowledge that it applies to.
c. The theory must be able to predict the existence of new knowledge that heretofore had been unknown.
d. For the theory to be added to the scientific culture is must be approved by players respected to pass judgment in the area of the theory, an only then can it be communicated to all players interested in the theory, at which time it is added to scientific culture.
6. Any scientist is allowed to test a theory. They must do this in one or more of the following ways:
a. Further check the predictions of the theory against existing scientific knowledge.
b. Manipulate the apparatus of the theory to predict new phenomena and construct an experiment to detect the new phenomena. Phenomena can be a measurement, an object or creature, a motion or behavior and so forth.
c. The results of the test may be added to the scientific culture only if it has been repeated by at least on other independent scientist and all experiments have been reviewed and approved by players that have the respect of the other players.
7. Any scientist may test any theory at any time.

The victory conditions:
The game may never end. There may be no final and complete set of scientific knowledge and theory. The game goes on as long as it appears to be creating useful scientific knowledge and the players are interested in playing.

Religion as a game –

Initial Conditions:
--They are the same as the game of science.

Rules of the Game:
1. It is played in multiple groups. Each of the groups forms a different religion. A religion is culture based on holy knowledge.
2. There are two kinds of players:
a. Disciple – may also be called follower, acolyte, initiate, layperson, cannon fodder and so forth.
b. Sage – may also be called mullah, priest, bishops, pope, rabbi, witch doctor and so forth. There must be at least one sage in the game at all times. If the last sage quits or dies, he must be replaced by one of the disciples.
3. The only knowledge allowed is holy knowledge. Only a sage may create holy knowledge. The knowledge may originate from anywhere, as long as a sage pronounces it to be holy knowledge.
4. Over time one or more sage collects holy knowledge into a book called a holy book. It may also be called a bible, Torah, Koran, and so forth. Everything in the holy book is sacred and therefore absolutely true.
5. It is the responsibility of the sage to make sure that the disciples are indoctrinated in the holy knowledge as they see fit.
6. It is the responsibility of the sage to see to it that children of disciples are also indoctrinated as they see fit. Groups that fail to do this will loose.
7. It is the responsibility of the sage to see to it that the numbers of disciples in the group are always growing. How this is accomplished is only limited by the imagination of the sage. Interesting tactics that have been tried in the past are:
a. Out procreate opposing religions.
b. Kill and persecute members of opposing religions.
c. Convert members of opposing religions.
d. Absorb opposing religious knowledge.
8. One of more members of a religion may decide to change the teachings of the group they belong to. When this happens, if they are not killed off, they must be expelled from the group. Those expelled must attempt to start a new religion.

Victory Conditions:
--The religion that has absorbed all the disciples in the game is declared the winner.

It is obvious just by looking at the rules of both games that they have very little in common.

Starboy

mibby529

An interesting idea.

Well, most religions don't desire to dominate the world. Just Xianity and Islam, and your appropriate fundie sects of whatever religion you care to name.

In fact, right now, many indigenous peoples are having a problem with ppl trying to convert. It's called cultural appropriation, and it's very dangerous. A few changes in a lot of rites will result in a Darwin Award.

Starboy

Well I guess those religions will not survive.

Dan828

How about a modification to the religious game. Have one of the religions be the "true" religion of the gam by some or other rules system. Any chance that it will do better than the other ones?

Starboy

They all claim to be true. Those that do not soon become extinct.

crocodile deathroll

I think religion is no more than a defunct cosmology people still like to cling to for cultural reasons.
Fred Hoyle's steady state theory could of just as easily become the cornerstone a dogmatic religion future like the Biblical creation story.

mibby529

Well, not quite, Starboy. Tribal religions generally don't claim to be the "one true god," as I mentioned earlier. And they generally get quite offended when someone of another ethnic group tries to convert. Recalls a mixture of fundamentalist Hinduism, Taoism, super string theory, Lakota ceremonies, and Illuminism passed off as Hopi.

How about this:

1) Several religions claim to be the "one true religion."
2) Others say they're "right for us."
3) Others are a "happy medium," saying that anyone can join, but not requiring it.

Class 1 religions may do whatever they wish to attract converts, going as far as genocide.
Class 2 religions shun converts.
Class 3 religions may engage in missionary activity, but only the most extreme versions of Class 3 religions may engage in genocide for the explicit purpose of gaining converts.
Some apostates from Class 1 religions try to join Class 2 religions, constantly offending real members of Class 2 religions by mixing and matching from all religions.

The game ends when 1) there are no Class 1 followers any more, and/or 2) there is only one religion. All surviving religions win.

Starboy

Hi mibby529,

You are right a religion doesn’t have to claim to be the one true religion, however that is not in the rules. I also agree that it doesn’t need to make any claims of truth at all. Truth can be used by a religion as a conversion tactic. I propose that the rules be changed as follows:

4. Over time one or more sage collects holy knowledge into a book called a holy book. It may also be called a bible, Torah, Koran, and so forth. Everything in the holy book is sacred and therefore absolutely true.

change to:

4. Over time one or more sage collects holy knowledge into a book called a holy book. It may also be called a bible, Torah, Koran, and so forth. Everything in the holy book is sacred.

7. It is the responsibility of the sage to see to it that the numbers of disciples in the group are always growing. How this is accomplished is only limited by the imagination of the sage. Interesting tactics that have been tried in the past are:

change to:

7. It is recommended that the sage see to it that the numbers of disciples in the group is always growing. How this is accomplished is only limited by the imagination of the sage. Interesting tactics that have been tried in the past are:

Then add the following:

7e. Declare all holy knowledge to be absolutely true.

I think these changes accomplish what you are trying to do. What do you think?

I disagree with your proposed addition to the victory conditions. I don’t think there is any doubt that the game will continue until all disciples are absorbed or until mankind or religion becomes extinct.

Starboy

Dan828

OK, how about the religious game as a computer model, with the individual adherents being represented by AI bots. One of the religions is actually the true religion (our world is represented on a computer, our creators are programmers, etc.) and the others are whatever made up crap someone chooses. What attributes would be necessary to give the true religion an advantage over the others? What attributes would it not have if it were to survive and compete with the made up religions?

mibby529

Yeah, that makes sense.