Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jackalope · 06-20-2003, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mike_decock
I think this picture explains it best:

-Mike...

Great IPU, my artwork gets around!
And everyone note, the "water" analogy showed up before there was even a half page of postings. It's as if certain posters are either incapable of reading the thread or they simply have no better arguments to make. Or possibly both.

EstherRose · 06-21-2003, 01:45 AM

John 10
30I and the Father are one."
31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"
33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

John 14
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

These scriptures are just two of the passages that show the divinity of Jesus and that belief in Him is the only way to eternal life. From words you�ve (mark9950) written in later posts, I doubt any proof I offer you will ever be enough, so I will just state what the bible says.

06-21-2003, 01:53 AM

<<<<John 14
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. >>>>

EstherRose I think you missed the point of John 14:6. "no man comes to the Father, except THROUGH me". This is a very important point as Jesus is the mediator between God and Men (1 Tim 2:5). Since when is a mediator the same person as the one he is mediating for? Jesus taught us to pray to the Father at Matthew 6:9. What else did Jesus say? "that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you", "if ye shall ask anything of the Father, he will give it you in my name." John 15:16, 16:23 If there was any doubt about Jesus words in John 14:14, it all but removed 14 verses later when he says, "the Father is greater than I" John 14:28. Does any of the above prove a trifold God? Absolutely not!

Max

mark9950 · 06-21-2003, 01:58 AM

Is that what God really looks like?If so that would make sense.

I guess when the people saw God that must be what they saw.

If I ever see a diety like that I will then believe again.LOL ROFL

Quote:

30I and the Father are one."

Ok I know that Jesus meant he was the second god of the multi gods trinity by seeing that god is elohim (not elowah) basically God is a multigod God consisting of three gods.

Jesus claimed to be God and the people did not believe him because there was nothing in the OT claiming that he would come as the messiah.That is why he was crucified he was a nut.

06-21-2003, 02:02 AM

<<<Jesus claimed to be God and the people did not believe him because there was nothing in the OT claiming that he would come as the messiah>>>

AGAIN let me reiterate, Jesus never claimed to be God. Do you understand the 70 weeks in the book of Daniel?

Max

EstherRose · 06-21-2003, 03:00 AM

John 10
30I and the Father are one."

Uh yeah, He did claim to be God.

Secular Pinoy · 06-21-2003, 03:18 AM

That is if we assume that the Gospel of John is accurate in its portrayl of Jesus words and deeds (and here I'm assuming that there was a Historical Jesus, and that the Gospel might be somewhat useful). Yet GJohn is woefully at variance with the Synoptic Gospels (Matt, Mark, Luke), with a Jesus that couldn't resist to declare his uniqueness and exalted position. Compare that with the Markan Jesus, for instance, that tries to hide his "true" nature and rebukes those who "spill the beans" (the Messianic Secret).

Spaz · 06-21-2003, 08:25 AM

You can never argue anything about jesus or god using the bible, they pretty much have everything covered with the old and new testaments.

You can argue that Jesus is the devil, because the christians (in error, I know) take lucifer (the morning star) to be the devil in Isaiah 14:12, and then in Revelation 22:16,
"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

Ta-da!

mark9950 · 06-21-2003, 03:36 PM

That jesus was crucified because he claimed to be God.There is nothing in the OT about a coming messiah jesus.

These people that had him crucified had the OT and knew it well enough to know that he supposed blasphemed as proclaiming being God.

I personally think that jesus wanted to be a god not part of the God for publicity despite being killed for it.

River · 06-21-2003, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mark9950
That jesus was crucified because he claimed to be God.There is nothing in the OT about a coming messiah jesus.

These people that had him crucified had the OT and knew it well enough to know that he supposed blasphemed as proclaiming being God.

I personally think that jesus wanted to be a god not part of the God for publicity despite being killed for it.

Only one prob, dude. Jesus never claimed to be G-d.

06-21-2003, 03:36 PM	#39
mark9950 Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: midwest usa Posts: 1,203	It makes sense That jesus was crucified because he claimed to be God.There is nothing in the OT about a coming messiah jesus. These people that had him crucified had the OT and knew it well enough to know that he supposed blasphemed as proclaiming being God. I personally think that jesus wanted to be a god not part of the God for publicity despite being killed for it.

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06-21-2003, 01:45 AM	#32
EstherRose Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Arizona Posts: 183	John 10 30I and the Father are one." 31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" 33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." John 14 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. These scriptures are just two of the passages that show the divinity of Jesus and that belief in Him is the only way to eternal life. From words you�ve (mark9950) written in later posts, I doubt any proof I offer you will ever be enough, so I will just state what the bible says.

06-21-2003, 01:53 AM	#33
YHWHtruth Guest Posts: n/a	<<<<John 14 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. >>>> EstherRose I think you missed the point of John 14:6. "no man comes to the Father, except THROUGH me". This is a very important point as Jesus is the mediator between God and Men (1 Tim 2:5). Since when is a mediator the same person as the one he is mediating for? Jesus taught us to pray to the Father at Matthew 6:9. What else did Jesus say? "that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you", "if ye shall ask anything of the Father, he will give it you in my name." John 15:16, 16:23 If there was any doubt about Jesus words in John 14:14, it all but removed 14 verses later when he says, "the Father is greater than I" John 14:28. Does any of the above prove a trifold God? Absolutely not! Max

06-21-2003, 02:02 AM	#35
YHWHtruth Guest Posts: n/a	<<<Jesus claimed to be God and the people did not believe him because there was nothing in the OT claiming that he would come as the messiah>>> AGAIN let me reiterate, Jesus never claimed to be God. Do you understand the 70 weeks in the book of Daniel? Max

06-21-2003, 03:00 AM	#36
EstherRose Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Arizona Posts: 183	John 10 30I and the Father are one." Uh yeah, He did claim to be God.

06-21-2003, 03:18 AM	#37
Secular Pinoy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Quezon City, Philippines Posts: 1,994	That is if we assume that the Gospel of John is accurate in its portrayl of Jesus words and deeds (and here I'm assuming that there was a Historical Jesus, and that the Gospel might be somewhat useful). Yet GJohn is woefully at variance with the Synoptic Gospels (Matt, Mark, Luke), with a Jesus that couldn't resist to declare his uniqueness and exalted position. Compare that with the Markan Jesus, for instance, that tries to hide his "true" nature and rebukes those who "spill the beans" (the Messianic Secret).

06-21-2003, 08:25 AM	#38
Spaz Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: 6th Circle of Hell Posts: 1,093	You can never argue anything about jesus or god using the bible, they pretty much have everything covered with the old and new testaments. You can argue that Jesus is the devil, because the christians (in error, I know) take lucifer (the morning star) to be the devil in Isaiah 14:12, and then in Revelation 22:16, "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." Ta-da!

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