post-it

I purpose that without the existence of a creator that it is impossible to say that man has a purpose by his existence. He certainly can be said to be an effect and a cause upon the universe is some small way, but to have a purpose implies that a Creator exists that would allow a life to have meaning more than just a glob of energy and mass interacting with time, space and matter.

Without a god, we are equal to a rock, with no more importance than a rock. Murder should be looked at as no more wrong than rock crushing.

However, if we have purpose, then we have a higher value and reason to live.

Philosoft

Do we? How do I benefit from the purposefulness of the universe? What does it ultimately matter to me if I am valuable to God?

post-it

By knowing that you have more value than that of a rock or a cup of water.

Quote:

What does it ultimately matter to me if I am valuable to God?

If we are just effects of the universe, then there is no right or wrong.

Philosoft

But there are at least six billion other valuable beings. How does this impart anything other than an insignificant-cog-in-the-machinery sense of purpose?
I don't see how this follows. Purpose does not necesssarily imply moral correctness. It's possible our purpose is to see if God can convince us that right is wrong and wrong is right.

Theli

*sigh*
How many times haven't we heard this argument?
P1. - if there's no god, nothing matters and I don't want to live anymore!!!!!!!!!!
P2. - I'm happy.
C. - There is a god

And, by the way... valueable to who? For something to have value there must be someone or something to value it. A hamster sees no value in gold, but humans kill for it. Makes you think.
Thank's for making my point. What I find strange is how much information can transform reality.
One day we are walking around, the birds are singing and the sun is shining. We have our whole lives ahead of us.
Then suddenly an atheist utters "there is no god", and *poff* we all turns into effects, rocks-lookalike, or whatever reduced being the christain decides we are without god.
I never knew information of the past could do so much damage.
It's also strange that people can live by rights and wrongs, yet they don't exist.

Shadowy Man

What is the purpose of the Creator?

Family Man

Why it is necessary to have a god for life to have purpose? And why is it necessary for life to have purpose for life to have value? Personally, it think that life itself has intrinsic value in and of itself. The fact that we cling to it as tenaciously as possible is proof of that.


I really worry about people who say things like that, and they all appear to be Christian. What is Christianity teaching these days? Nihilism?

post-it

Because purpose implies design, otherwise it can only be an effect of the universe.

To claim no creator, claims we have no purpose other than effect. Effect can have no right or wrong, just as rocks and animals can't be right or wrong in attribute.

philechat

A grand non-sequitur. And "value" is meaningless unless there is a valuer. Without a God humans can be the valuers of other things, as do other animals (valuing one mate over another, etc).

Need I say about the difference of diamond and graphite? Why, made of the same material, was diamond more "valuable" to people than graphite? Because God said so?

Theli

I don't think we should put too much weight on purpose, being a very vague concept. If purpose means a set goal, then what is the goal set by god? And why is life needed to cary that out?
From a personal viewpoint, it makes little difference what purpose some creator has for life itself. I create my own purpose, at the best of my ability.