himynameisPwn

I made my confirmation quite a while ago, and I'll admit it took ALOT of doublethink. I had to repeat over and over again that I believed in God regardless of what my mind actually thought. Anyway, the basics of the sacrament:

-Your turn to accept God regardless of what your parents think
-You are deciding whether you agree
with Catholicism(do the rest of the christian relgions have this? Im not sure as I was raised catholic)
-Renewal of baptismal promises
-Mature member of the church now

Those are the basics as far as I understand. Now, think about this, around 7th grade(when i got it), you are deciding your faith, supposedly choosing catholicism or not. Besides the peer presure to choose catholicism, which is quite horrible(let me mention now that I went to catholic school), I want to discuss how anyone can really choose at such a young age, with such little knowledge.

When I was in seventh grade, I was a dumbass who would accept anything. I didn't question religion beyond the basics, and even then I accepted BS answers like take it on faith. How can you expect someone who has no knowledge of anything else to choose a religion other than yours? Is this not brainwashing? Your reinforcing your religion into the young by saying "Now YOU'VE choosen the religion."

I had no other way to think. I didn't know anything else. Did anyone honestly expect me, an immature 7th grader to make such a life changing decision, without any knowledge of the other side? Thats like the classic game-show choice, with more risk. Do you take door number 2, or the hawaiian vacation? In this case though, you've been taught that the hawaiian vacation is true happiness and the truth and all that other good stuff(tm).

In my opinion, confirmation is a blatant brain washing sacrament. Your not really a mature member of the church, really, nothing changes except you get Super Nintendo, or alot of money, etc. Your not mature enough to understand the ramifications of such a big step, nevermind even understand the word 'ramifications.' I'm getting even more disgusted as I think about it.

By the way, I'd love for a true believer(or even a liberal etc.) to reply to this thread, I really am interested in their point of view, do not be afraid, I don't bite..... much.

Sephiroth

Well, I agree with you. I had Confirmation at 9th grade though when I started to really question my fundy and Catholic ways and I really didn't want it and I argued with my parents over it but they forced me to take it otherwise I'd get the boot. Oh well, at least I should be able to find someway to get excommunicated after I move out. IMO, I think Confirmation is just another scam to make you feel more loyal to the church and, in the Church's hopes, more guilty should you change your mind about religion otherwise, why not hold off on Confirmation until you're 18 or 21?

Skid

Well, I'm certainly not a true believer (TM), but I have to say I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of confirmation.

I was confirmed in eighth grade (Lutheran), and I remember being a bit puzzled by the entire experience. I went to a Lutheran elementary school, and the entire class went though a whole school year of classes, and was confirmed at the end of the year.

I don't remember *anyone* ever asking any serious questions; it was basically just the pastor quizzing us to make sure we had memorized all the "important" elements of the catechism. It certainly was not about *understanding" any of it; just mindlessly repeating whatever was written in the book.

Looking back on this experience, it seems obvious that this is purposely done at an age where there it is very unlikely that anyone would raise any serious questions or complaints. I can't believe that anyone would consider a 12-14 year old kid capable of really understanding all the various elements of the process. "Blatant brain washing sacrament" describes it perfectly.

It would seem to me that if the church is supremely confident in it's core doctrines and beliefs, it would welcome, and even encourage, tough questions from it's young potential new members.

BigJim

At least it's better than baptism shortly after birth. I was 12 or so before I was baptized, and I was actually pretty proud that it happened when I was old enough to understand the ritual, and thought it silly to baptize babies that had no clue.

Of course, I hadn't done much thinking at the time (I just bought into whatever the authority figures told me), and didn't really form my own opinions until my early 20's.

I ate Pascal's Wafer

I made my confirmation when I was in 10th grade. It was at a time when I was seriously doubting my faith, and in retrospect I think I was a weak atheist then. Anyway, my dad was born and raised a Catholic and was really set in his ways. My mom was raised in a southern Baptist church, and somehow came to be a Catholic wannabe when she met my dad. There was a lot of pressure put on me by my family, friends, and church elders to get confirmed. At the time the last thing I wanted to do was say "No, I don't want to do this" and start up the many arguments and lectures. I relented, and decided to get confirmed.

The questions they asked were quite simple questions (such as, "Do you believe in the Big Jeez" and "Do the vestments make the pope look fat", nothing too complicated), but I still had to reply as if I actually believed what I was saying. It was the first time I felt repressed in my beliefs. I really wanted to express my own beliefs, but there was too much pressure on me to conform to a different belief. Going to church weekly wasn't too bad since I didn't have to actually admit anything (and I got free wine). However, having to intentionally lie, under a promise, to a family friend (the priest) was tough on me.

I'll have to agree with the others in that the 12-16 or so age range is a poor time to have the sacrament of confirmation. There are too many pressures that can be placed on the child then, and he should be allowed to wait until those troubling years are behind him to make a firm decision as to what his future beliefs are going to be. To force the child to accept the sacrament of confirmation at that age is simply brain washing and mindless indoctrination.

-Nick

Vorkosigan

I was fortunate, having come to atheism early. I declared myself atheist one day at the dinner table. My 'rents refused to have me confirmed and insisted I go to mass, but not take communion. No move could have been more calculated to cement me in my atheism by showing me the iron fist inside the glove of love.

I think they do it so early because it is widely recognized that if children are not Xtians by early adolescence, the chance of them becoming Christians falls drastically.

Vorkosigan

[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: Vorkosigan ]</p>

GaryP

Interesting confirmation stories.

In the summer, right after 6th grade my mother informed me that I would be in Methodist confirmation classes 2 times a week for the whole summer.

I still remember being ticked. Wasting precious summer evenings in church!

I dutifully attended and was confirmed. I actually think that the constant demands on my time helped lead me down the path to godlessness.

Even when very young, I remember sitting in church thinking, "If god loves me, why can't I stay home and watch cartoons like I want to?" "If god knows what I am thinking, why do I need to pray to him?" These questions have never adequately been answered, IMO.

Grejak

I had confirmation in 11th grade, by that time I disbelieved in god and considered myself a deist. In fact, in the letter I wrote to the bishop, I specifically said that I did not believe in God or Jesus and did not want to be confirmed. Apparently he still approved me, as I was confirmed 2 weeks later. From what I remember, about half of the class did not know if they believed in God or did not and more than half questioned the Jesus=God position of the church.

When I talked to the priest I specifically told him that I found no reason to believe in God or believe that any part of the bible was true. We talked for a while and I did agree that a god might exist, but that I had no evidence either way or any evidence of which God existed.

The other area catholic church did confirmation in 4th grade. I doubt that many kids are capable of making the decision that early in life as I was still figuring out what I believe in college. The main point of confirmation, as you stated, is indoctrination at in influential age.

IvanK

I find it odd that someone who didn't believe in a deity, or even the possibility of one, would want to be confirmed or that a Catholic Bishop would allow someone to be confirmed who as much said he didn't buy in and didn't want to be confirmed.

When I was confirmed in the Lutheran Church, I think it was around junior high or so, it was just something expected of those in my crowd. We all sang in the choir, taught Sunday school, did the church youth group thing and the rest of it. As I recall it was shortly thereafter that I began to have my first real misgivings about the whole religion thing. Confirmation class in the old LCA was mostly learning some about Luther (but of course not that he was a virulent anti-Semite or said that reason was a whore and you must pluck out her eyes to be saved) and discussing ethical matters. I recall some chat during the ceremony about believing in God and working against the Devil and all his works and ways but there was no heavy intellectual lifting on those topics involved in the preparation for the ritual. Had there been, I wonder if I would have gone through it.

Abacus

I was confirmed (in a Lutheran church), for one reason, and one reason only. So my parents could make my grandparents happy. I had no input in the matter. However, I didn't give a rip one way or the other. I was only 13, and hadn't developed a skeptical mind yet.