chekmate

Just wondering the skeptics general views on this... I'll tries to generalize the options, so hopefully you can make due.

Melkor

Until we have a better understanding of the nature of spacetime, and until someone proves otherwise to me, I refuse to believe that any decision I make, any event that happens, or any other thought, word, or deed is "predetermined".

That whole "predetermination" concept utterly RUINED the movie Signs for me. I think it would have been a decent suspense/sci-fi movie except for all that ridiculous crap in it.

I actually groaned and rolled my eyes at the end when I realized what the numerous glasses of water sitting around the house were "for".

It was so utterly absurd that I was totally unable to suspend my disbelief any further, making the movie fall into the "stupid" category for me.

Philosoft

"Determinism" and "predeterminism" are not equivalent concepts. Once advised about the correct meanings, very few people self-identify as predeterminists but quite a few self-identify as determinists. Similarly, almost no one is a proponent of libertarian free will. Most people accept concepts of free will that are compatible with some level of determinism.

K

I voted 100% determined, but, like Philosoft said, that's different than predeterminism. I believe that a persons actions are completely dictated by physical operation of the brain (genetics and environment. However, the inputs from the environment may not necessarily be determined.

I would be interested in hearing how those who believe in 100% free will would explain things like the cycle of abuse (those who were abused as children have a greater tendency to become abusers), brainwashing, conditioned responses, and subliminal suggestion. Do you deny that any of these things are actual phenomena?

nowhereman

We can't tell the difference. Therefore the point is moot.

Amos

I voted 75/25 because that was closest to reality.

As a human being we are 100 procent free and to say that we are determined by the environment is like saying that we get wet because it is raining.

We are 75-80% determined because we are predetermined in our soul and free in our conscious mind only.

Since both our conscious and subconscious mind are ours we are still 100% free as human beings and don't have to get wet when it is raining.

When our conscious and subconscious mind (soul) become one we are 100 procent free and this freedom is the basis for the freewill arguent (Freewill must be conceived to exist before determinism can be an alternative).

Shake

quoth Geddy Lee: