Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Thomas Cassidy · 06-25-2002, 04:43 PM

Mad Kally, I don't know your mother, and would be the last person on earth to be disrespectful to her or her faith, but if it is based on fear it is not the faith taught in the bible. Over and over and over and over again in the bible Christ tells us "be not afraid." Fear is the exact opposite of faith.

ashibaka · 06-25-2002, 05:14 PM

So, Cassidy, I can quote you on saying that Pascal's Wager is a fraud?

Douglas J. Bender · 06-25-2002, 05:35 PM

Mr. Cassidy,

Hello. I understand you are a seminary professor (I have a way of finding these things out). What seminary, may I ask?

In Christ,

Douglas

Godless Dave · 06-25-2002, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cydonia:
I've asked for Jesus to show himself to me before, and from my background that's a big deal. My heart starts pounding, i feel like i'm on the verge of some big revelation, and that's all been conditioned in me. I don't think that counts as "knowing". But a christian would say, "that's god making his presence known. Go for it!"

Those are endorphins making their presence known.

The Other Michael · 06-25-2002, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thomas Cassidy:
Mad Kally, I don't know your mother, and would be the last person on earth to be disrespectful to her or her faith, but if it is based on fear it is not the faith taught in the bible. Over and over and over and over again in the bible Christ tells us "be not afraid." Fear is the exact opposite of faith.

Kally, please let us know the reaction when you tell your mother that she isn't a True Christian.

And please be sure to give her Thomas' email address so she can ask him for guidance on where she went wrong.

cheers,
Michael

Hayden · 06-25-2002, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thomas Cassidy:
Over and over and over and over again in the bible Christ tells us "be not afraid." Fear is the exact opposite of faith.

Then why do (some) people of faith refer to themselves as "God-fearing"?

HR

Mad Kally · 06-25-2002, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Other Michael:

Kally, please let us know the reaction when you tell your mother that she isn't a True Christian.

And please be sure to give her Thomas' email address so she can ask him for guidance on where she went wrong.

cheers,
Michael

I'm not telling her!!

Maybe Thomas could email her. PsychoMom@TBN.ORG.. (the one with the big pink hair)

diana · 06-26-2002, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by Thomas Cassidy:
Diana, I can't help but think that neither you nor Michael has a good understanding of Christianity.

I can't speak for Michael, but I readily admit I do not have a good understanding of Xnty. I do not understand it because it doesn't make sense to me.

However, you have managed to suggest that you do have a good understanding, so I welcome your input.

I am a Christian, and I don't fear hell, nor do I fear being wrong.

(I should probably say at the outset that while I admire your optimistic take on your religion, one example is only arguing the special case. As a Xn, I expect you to help me make sense of the bible verses I see that appear to contradict your God Is Love view.)

Quote:

Luke 1:50: His mercy extends to those who fear him, from generation to generation.

Acts 9:31: Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee and Samaria enjoyed a time of peace. It was strengthened; and encouraged by the Holy Spirit, it grew in numbers, living in the fear of the Lord.

Acts 10:35: but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right.

Philippians 2:12: Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed�-not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence�-continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

Do you fear God, as you as a Xn have been ordered to do? And what, exactly, do you fear--if not hell?

I do not live an ascetic life out of a fear of hell any more than I lead a silent life out of a fear of being wrong.

Perhaps you're missing a pertinent part of your faith, then. Hell, and the fear of it, is an integral part of the Bible your religion is derived from. Ignoring the verses that impress upon you what will happen if you do not believe will not make them go away.

Quote:

Mat 10:28: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Mar 9:43, 44: And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Are you saying this was just an empty threat?

Christianity is not about fearing hell, it is about being forgiven.

How do you justify setting this up as an either/or situation? If the bible is any guide, Xnty is about both. What would be the point in forgiveness if there was nothing to fear?

I live a life much like everyone else, completely free from any fear of hell.

That was my point, initially. Thanks.

I also live a life of intellectual inquiry, free from all fear.

Great. Then we should have a very fruitful discussion.

Being wrong doesn't invalidate my self-worth and being non-ascetic does not place me in danger of hell. I have the best of both worlds!

I'm pleased to hear that you personally have managed to escape the typical self-esteem issues that adherence to biblical principles encourages.

I look foward to our discussion.

d

Caverdude · 06-26-2002, 09:22 PM

Diana, I can't help but think that neither you nor Michael has a good understanding of Christianity. I am a Christian, and I don't fear hell, nor do I fear being wrong. I do not live an ascetic life out of a fear of hell any more than I lead a silent life out of a fear of being wrong. Christianity is not about fearing hell, it is about being forgiven. I live a life much like everyone else, completely free from any fear of hell. I also live a life of intellectual inquiry, free from all fear. Being wrong doesn't invalidate my self-worth and being non-ascetic does not place me in danger of hell. I have the best of both worlds! [/QUOTE]

Thomas,
Very well stated. It IS possible to adhere to a belief system and still have an open mind with the ability to probe and question.

Note: I tried to show your post as a quote, but I do not know the system yet.

[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Caverdude ]

Arrowman · 06-26-2002, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thomas Cassidy:
...if it is based on fear it is not the faith taught in the bible. Over and over and over and over again in the bible Christ tells us "be not afraid." Fear is the exact opposite of faith.

<a href="http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/5011/5011_01.asp" target="_blank">http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/5011/5011_01.asp</a>

06-26-2002, 09:22 PM	#29
Caverdude Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bristol, TN Posts: 83	Diana, I can't help but think that neither you nor Michael has a good understanding of Christianity. I am a Christian, and I don't fear hell, nor do I fear being wrong. I do not live an ascetic life out of a fear of hell any more than I lead a silent life out of a fear of being wrong. Christianity is not about fearing hell, it is about being forgiven. I live a life much like everyone else, completely free from any fear of hell. I also live a life of intellectual inquiry, free from all fear. Being wrong doesn't invalidate my self-worth and being non-ascetic does not place me in danger of hell. I have the best of both worlds! [/QUOTE] Thomas, Very well stated. It IS possible to adhere to a belief system and still have an open mind with the ability to probe and question. Note: I tried to show your post as a quote, but I do not know the system yet. [ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Caverdude ]</p>

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06-25-2002, 04:43 PM	#21
Thomas Cassidy Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 42	Mad Kally, I don't know your mother, and would be the last person on earth to be disrespectful to her or her faith, but if it is based on fear it is not the faith taught in the bible. Over and over and over and over again in the bible Christ tells us "be not afraid." Fear is the exact opposite of faith.

06-25-2002, 05:14 PM	#22
ashibaka Regular Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Cloudy Water Posts: 443	So, Cassidy, I can quote you on saying that Pascal's Wager is a fraud?

06-25-2002, 05:35 PM	#23
Douglas J. Bender Banned Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Elkhart, Indiana (USA) Posts: 460	Mr. Cassidy, Hello. I understand you are a seminary professor (I have a way of finding these things out). What seminary, may I ask? In Christ, Douglas

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